Date:    Wed, 20 Jul 1994 22:19:07 CDT
From:    laurie <[L--D--S] at [UGA.CC.UGA.EDU]>
Subject: DragonCon Report, Part 3 (Humor Panel)

This continues a report on some events at DragonCon in Atlanta,
GA on July 16, 1994.  Items in parentheses are not direct quotes,
but what I believe was said (I can only write so fast) or
description of events.  If you were there and have anything to
add, including corrections or clarifications, please do so!
(Correction on Report #1: "Techno Comics" should have been
spelled "Tekno Comix".)

This section covers:

3. "Humor In Comics" panel (titled "Putting the Comedy Back in
Comics" in the Pocket Program).

Scheduled Panelists (based on info from the con program):

Ward Batty -- could not find a bio, but during the panel he
mentioned he ran a comic book shop in Marietta, Georgia (an
Atlanta suburb). Got the impression he was there to act as
moderator.

Hart Chamberlin - publisher of "Dog Soup", an Atlanta-based
alternative comics and rock-review anthology.  Latest issue
contains an interview with Skip Williamson, who recently moved
to the Atlanta area.

Phil Foglio -- currently does "Buck Godot" and "Xxxenophile" for
his own company, Palliard Press.

Bill Holbrook -- creator of the syndicated strips "On the
Fastrack" and "Safe Havens".

Chris Reccardi -- animator for Ren & Stimpy (believe he never
actually showed up for the panel).

Skip Williamson -- "one of the architects of the underground
comix movement, has been penning cantankerous satire for more
than 25 years."  Currently self-publishing (and perhaps best
known for) "Smoot" comic book.

     *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *

Ward Batty:  "Are we in a new Golden Age of funny books?"

Phil Foglio: "(We're) in the beginning of a new awareness that
comicbooks *can* be funny.  For the last 15 years there was *no*
funny stuff in comics.  The big thing about underground comics is
that they were taking that serious stuff and *making* it funny."

Skip Williamson: "I don't see a big surge (in funny comic
books)."

Hart Chamberlain: (I work part-time in a comic-book store and)
the majority of people I see who buy Bongo Comics' 'Ren &
Stimpy', they're not picking up anything else.  One day we hope
they will, but they're not now."

Batty: "What would you recommend?"

Chamberlin: " 'Bone'.  I like 'Bone'.  It's humorous."

Batty: "It's not slap-dash funny, though."

Hart: "Either you're looking for Bugs Bunny or (you're looking
for something low-key. Tastes differ.) But the problem is I
haven't seen very many of them coming up to ask (for anything
else).

Williamson: "Yeah, sense of humor is a really funny thing.  The
editors would laugh when I made fun of the political right but
they were offended if I made fun of the left.  But it's a
qualitative judgement.  The stuff I do is real raucous and rude."

(?): ("Yet the reverse seems to be true of comic strips.  Why
aren't newspapers going for variety or buying more action-
adventure strips?")

Bill Holbrook: "Newspapers get real antsy about how Joe Sixpack
is going to react to something geared to another neighborhood.
Early on in the development of newspaper cartoon strips, during
the Depression, adventure strips became popular.  Since World War
II, humor strips took over. Several geniuses rescued humor (in
postwar America, notably) Charles Schultz and Walt Kelley."

Williamson: "Yes, but now Charles Schultz has *no* humor. (He
hasn't been funny in years.)"

Foglio: "Yeah, but he's been doing this for, what, forty years?
(If you did a daily strip for that long, you might fall into
formulae, too.)"

Holbrook: "The (nature of the comic strip) medium restricts you
to that eventually."

Williamson (?): "(Even Al Capp, when he got old and right-wing
conservative, managed to stay funny, though)."

Audience Member: "Why aren't there more humorous comic books?"

Foglio: "The problem is, humor books are a *lot* more difficult
to do and (your average continuing comic book series) pretty much
depends on two guys who have a synergistic thing, and (the
industry requires a commitment of, or the average time before
burnout is(?))about two years.  (Also,) the major comic book
companies (don't like humor titles) 'cause it's something they
can't control.  Any schmoe can produce an (action-adventure
storyline) - 'You hit my wife.  I must kill you now.', (but humor
is a lot more difficult)."

Williamson: "Gah, this is all such a corporate mentality.  It's
not being pushed because it doesn't fit the formula."

Foglio: "If Ren & Stimpy had started out in comic books (instead
of on Nickelodeon, or Matt Groening hadn't had "The Simpsons"
broadcast on Fox network, their) sales would've started out a
*lot* lower.  It's almost totally impossible for a total unknown
(to get a funny comic book off the ground).

Batty: "I read somewhere that last year that (Americans watched
movies over 5 billion times, but they read over 9 billion
books.)"

Foglio: "Yeah, but (that nine million includes a lot of stuff.)
They count cookbooks, how-to manuals, Bibles..."

Audience Member: "Is there a natural bias in the comic book
industry against a humor comic?"

Foglio: "There was a period for three - four years when Justice
League was funny.  As soon as that writer was out of there,
though -- BOOM -- (the humor went downhill)....It's a combination
of the times.  (The attitude is that we're in) the endgame.  The
people who are buying the cutting-edge books, the Vertigo's, have
angst dripping out their ears.  Sandman! The shining beacon (of
what comics should be)!  Everything else is a waste of trees!"

Williamson: "I did a strip called 'Area Code 666', (about) a land
inhabited only by Christs and Anti-Christs. (That didn't go over
too well.  People take things too seriously)."

Foglio: "That was from 'King of King Features'.

(general laughter).

Batty (?): "-- and it's not as easy to market spinoffs like video
games with funny books."

Foglio: "I disagree.  You should see (the)'Sam & Max, Freelance
Police' (video game(?)), it's knocking everybody out!"

Holbrook (?): "But it doesn't last; the jokes play only a short
time -- "

Batty: "That's right.  That's why comedy songs don't generally
last very long. (You can only retell a joke so many times.)"

Audience Member: "Humor and comedy is more than a punchline.
It's a frame of mind."

Another Audience Member: "'Madman' seems to be making some ground
and it's a funny superhero."

Batty: "Yes, but you don't have many people as talented as Mark
Allred (sp?)(who can produce a lot of funny comic book heroes).
There are so many options besides Marvel or DC."

Foglio: "A lot of the stuff that started out really good is self-
published.  If Terry (Larry?) Marder or Jeff Smith had gone to
Marvel with their work, their feet wouldn't have touched ground."

Chamberlin: "Matt Groening did 'Life in Hell' for the longest
time."

Batty:  "The direct (comic book) market is a *lot* more
accessible (these days)."

Holbrook: "A lot of most major (cartoon strip syndicates, though)
are closed to new strips.  (Most of the strips in papers today
are over ten years old.  What was the last new strip you saw?
How many new strips can you count in your daily paper that are
less than five years old versus ten, twenty, or thirty years
old?)  Newspaper editors will not take a chance of dropping a
(tried and true) strip (like Beetle Bailey or Little Orphan
Annie)."

Foglio: "Right -- Until some humanitarian goes out and shoots
Bill Keane..."

(general laughter from audience)

Williamson: (mock concern) "You don't *like* 'Family Circus'?!"

Foglio: "Spooky Dead Grandpa? No thanks."

Batty: "Comedy's very hard.  That's why there's not a lot of it
out there."

Foglio: "(Yeah,) Steve Purcell's done almost nothing for the last
two years because he's been working with Lucasfilm on the
videogame."

Audience Member: "What's killing newspaper strips is 'Playing It
Safe'.  If you can make it like 'The Far Side', (the editors say)
'we'll buy it.'"

Holbrook: "Yeah, there's been a whole rash of Gary Larsen clones.
Bobby London was doing one, and Bud Sagenburg (sp?)...It's real
hard to sell continuity to a newspaper editor.  (They don't think
their readers can sustain the attention span.)  It's still being
done, but you'll see it in two-week sequences.  (That's what I
limit my continuing storylines to. Young cartoonists) show me
their adventure strips and I just wish them the best of luck."

Audience Member: "The problem with panel gag cartoons before 'The
Far Side' (was that back in the Sixties and Seventies) standard
magazines had a similar look. 'The Far Side' threw (the look of)
things off in the mainstream..."

Chamberlin: "I want to see what Ren & Stimpy and Bongo Comics
(will affect).  Who will copy them. I think the sign of a good
work is what it will inspire others to do."

Foglio: "True.  Ten years from now Ren & Stimpy could be trivia
questions."

Williamson: "(A lot of what started out good gets diluted by
other artists, though.)"

Audience Member: "Who influenced you?"

Skip Williamson: "Mainly Harvey Kurtzman."

Audience Member: "So you call that 'dilution'?"

Williamson: "Not when it's done with verve and talent."

Holbrook: "When Berke Breathed was in college he did a strip that
was a clone of Doonesbury, (but it developed into 'Bloom County',
something good in its own right.)"

Williamson: "(-- And now it's become 'Outland' -- something
completely different from 'Doonesbury'.)"

Foglio: "Is that *still* being published?!"

Williamson: "Yes."

Foglio: "Good heavens, I thought 'Bloom County' was a *lot*
better than 'Outland'!"

Williamson: "No, it's not."

Foglio: "I'm not going to get into a religious discussion."

Batty (?): "Well, what does the audience find funny?"

Williamson: "'Hamster Man'!"

Foglio: "'It's Science! With Dr. Radium'."

Audience Member: "'Milk & Cheese' by Evan Dorkin!"

Another Audience Member: "Anything Matt Freazell (sp?) does!"

Foglio: "Bob Burden's 'Flaming Carrot'."

Batty: "'Madman' is outstanding, too."

Foglio: "'Madman'?  (You're the second person here to mention
it.)  Oh, I gotta pick this up!"

Audience Member: "I don't read it, but I know a couple guys
who find 'Lobo' terribly funny and get it regularly. (And
that's a 'funny' superhero.)"

(Groans from the panel.)

Batty (?): "-- And 'The Tick'."

Foglio: "Tick's good.  I saw 'The Tick' on a Burger King glass."

Batty:  "Alan Moore's 'Dr. & Quinch' and 'Bo Jeffery'."

Audience Member: "'Dykes To Watch Out For'!"

Another Audience Member: "Anything by Nina Paley!"

Foglio: "Paley's good."

Holbrook: "'Arlo & Janice' (syndicated strip)."

Foglio: "Yes, yes!  My wife and I, that's our life!...And
actually, 'Family Circus' is funny if you look for the Zen
insights..."

(Panel time was up and someone asked Foglio what he was doodling
and everyone ran to the panelists' table to look at a sketch he'd
inked onto a white hotel tablecloth.  The sketch was of some
pretty females and one big ugly monster.  The thought balloon
above the monster read, "What am I doing here?")

(Here ends DragonCon Report Part III.
 The final installment, consisting of minor miscellaneous notes,
 will come out in the next day or so.)

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End of COMICS-L Digest - 20 Jul 1994 - Special issue
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