Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,talk.politics.guns From: [j g d] at [dixie.com] (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Waco Reawakened Date: Fri, 21 May 93 08:24:53 GMT [langel r j] at [phibred.com] (Rick J. Langel) writes: >She's got a pretty good line of BS. What possible benefit could BATF >and the FBI have gained by burning the compound and killing everyone >inside? To cover up their ineptitude, as she implies? I think not, as >situations like this are going to provoke more investigations than >trials would have. Yes, she is kinda shrill. But if you don't want to believe her, check out the June issue of Soldier of Fortune Magazine. They've published a report that confirms most of the allegations against the government based on their sources within both the BATF and FBI. Remember that SOF is a pro-covert-ops, mostly pro-cop magazine so their objectivity and their sources should be pretty solid. Note that this article was written BEFORE the government burned out the davidians. Among the government lies refuted: *Agent Steve Willis, in one of the cattle trucks, was assigned to kill Koresh at the beginning the assault. He partially missed. He was killed during the firefight. *Several agents were equipped with full auto MP5 machine pistols (NOT equipped with the more common 3 round burst mode trigger) loaded with "Cyclone" ammo designed specifically to defeat body armor. Recall the BATF claimed they were "outgunned" and did not have machine guns. *Many of the casualties were from friendly fire, both from the ground and from the air. One of the Cyclone armor-piercing bullets was removed from one of the BATF casualties. *The first firing was from the helos even before the cattle trailers arrived on the scene. One helo had already taken hits and autorotated down before the ground assault started. *The first firing from the ground was Agent Steve Willis's firing on Koresh as he oppened the door in response to BATF orders. *In response to Gov Richards' accusation, the BATF has admitted lying to the Texas Nat Guard and the Governor office, saying drug traffiking was suspected in the compound. Drug interdiction is the only legal basis the BATF had to use Nat Guard resources. *ATF had no clue as to the internal layout of the compound and had practiced the assault on a mockup that bore no resemblence to the actual compound. *Contrary to BATF claims that Koresh could not be captured outside the compound because he had been holed up for weeks, multiple witnesses confirm he was in town as recently as 4 days before the assault. Witnesses include a store owner providing receipts containing Koresh's signature, a doctor who had treated him for back pain and a bar manager who saw him eating lunch and having a beer. *Radio communications were in the clear and used commercial radios. Several local reporters recorded ATF communications from scanners including ATF agents talking in plain language about the pending assault. One can assume Koresh had a scanner. *Contrary to BATF's stated concern for the children and women, agents fired wildly into the building, often being seen on the video tape crouching behind cover, holding machine guns over their heads and "spray'n'pray"ing the building. If even a fraction of this is true, everything the government has said must be suspect. Why would they want to burn out the Davidians? Oh, things like getting rid of all those pesky witnesses who could refute the goverment's story, "destroy" nonexistant evidence and just plain vindictivness for losing the first firefight. >IMO, she's using a well-publicized problem with American military >tactics. It is the the 'friendly fire issue'. It is nearly >impossible for me to believe that the BATF people could have fired upon >their own men. After all, they all have those nice jackets with BATF on >the back. They do it because that makes them easily identifiable. Hard to see those letters when you're crouching behind a truck holding a machine gun over your head and spraying until the magazine is empty. Better start believing. >Getting back to the reason this article was posted, she also talks about >how the media was 'duped' into writing all kinds of 'incorrect' things >about the BD's. I think she's also playing on how the media was treated >during Desert Storm, where it was shown that the media would print >whatever they were told. If the press was so attentive, where are the hues and cries from the reporters who were being kept 3 miles away? The whining was deafening during Desert Storm. And why did the press report without challenge every lie told by the government even when it was obvious to the casual observer that the government was lying? Frankly I've seen better reporting from high school newspaper reporters. And why did the press continue to use the extremely perjorative term "cult" to describe the church? If they were a cult, the surely so is the Catholic church. After all, they require clergy to ignore the most basic instinct and become celebate, take a vow of poverty, live in communal same-sex settings, spent much of their time involved in religious ceremonies, and has the a whole army to defend the head of the church who lives in his own soveriegn country. I prefer not to judge others' religions 'lest I be judged. I expect the same from the government and would like to see it from the press. >She also plays up the fact that the media shows cults to be inherently >evil. She claims that the BD's were innocent good samaritans who did >nothing wrong. Numerous impartial media reports (for example, a local >reporter went to Waco and did some researching) and found that not to be >the case. The media is hardly objective when that "gun" thing is involved. That's what this was really all about. The government intended to stage a media event and create a poster child for this year's push for the Brady Bill. The gross incompetence of the Clinton administration shines brightly here. BATF is famous for its thuggish, poorly executed and fruitless raids on innocent gun owners. A competent administration would have used the FBI from the beginning, would have nabbed Koresh outside the compound and, assuming there were any, would have paraded the cache of evil baby- killing assault weapons before the media. A really competent administration probably would have left Koresh alone because they would have known for sure what was inside the compound. From my perspective, this atrocity and the ongoing coverup makes anything Tricky Dick did pale in comparison. If Clinton was (God forbid) a Republican, he would already have been impeached. John >Is this a lawsuit that is going to trial somewhere? If so, it will be >interesting to follow it. Thanks to whoever typed all that in. >-Rick >-- >There are no answers, only cross-references. > See Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy for the answer. >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >It may be that your only purpose in life is to be a warning to others. -- John De Armond, WD4OQC |Interested in high performance cars? Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? Marietta, Ga | Send ur snail-mail address to [j g d] at [dixie.com] | [p--f--m] at [dixie.com] for a free sample mag Whadda ya call the big sore on the butt of the US? A Hilliaroid.