Newsgroups: alt.politics.org.batf From: [w--eh--d] at [netcom.com] (David J Harr) Subject: Questions for the BATF Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 22:33:25 GMT I picked this up off the ca-firearms group, where someone posted it from libernet. I think it is of interest in this group. David. ------------- Here's something I pulled off of Libernet. I've cleaned it up a bit and added a few questions of my own at the end. -george ------------- Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1993 22:15:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Carol Moore Subject: Questions On Treasury Waco Report To: Libernet This week the Treasury Department will be issuing its report on the BATF raid on the Branch Davidians' Mt. Carmel Center. According to advance reports, the only "issue" they are investigating is why the BATF went ahead with the raid when they knew that the Branch Davidians had already been alerted. However, we all know that there are more critical questions than that. (An ex-CIA man in a recent Los Angeles Times op-ed quoted a teacher of undercover tactics at the Treasury Law Enforcement School on how to deal with an inquisitive press and public: "When they're hot on your tail, you gotta give 'em a bone to throw 'em off.") Below is a draft of such questions that a group of us want to circulate to the press, Congress, etc. after the report comes out. Please feel free to comment, add, correct, etc. or to answer any questions we still have, noted in caps. DRAFT RESPONSE TO TREASURY REPORT ON WACO Unanswered Questions on the February 28 Raid 1. Did the "Affidavit to Obtain Search Warrant" contain probable cause for issuing a search warrant? (The affidavit was signed by BATF agent Davy Aquilera on February 25, 1993.) * Why did the affidavit not note that David Koresh had never been convicted of a crime and had cooperated with authorities four times before when requested to do so? * Why didn't the affidavit mention that Davy Aquilera inspected the records of gun dealer Henry McMahon in (approximately June of) 1992? Why didn't it mention that when he did so, McMahon called Koresh and Koresh invited BATF to "come on out and see the guns" (according to Koresh lawyer Dick DeGuerin). * Davy Aquilera did a record search to see if any of the "principals" at Mt. Carmel were registered gun dealers. Why didn't he discover that Branch Davidian Paul Fatta (whom he mentions in the affidavit) was a registered arms dealer? Why didn't he discover that legal gun dealing was a major source of funds for the Branch Davidians? Why didn't BATF undercover agent Robert Rodriguez, who was informing from inside, know all this? * Why did Aquilera supply stale information in the affidavit? * All information about deliveries to the "MagBag" metal shop was at least 8 months old; * Deborah Sue Bunds' allegations about seeing and hearing discussions about machine guns in 1989; * Marc Breault said he participated in firearms shooting exercises, but he left Mt. Carmel Center in 1989. Further, why didn't Aquilar mention that Breault is blind?; * David Block's allegations that 1992 Branch Davidians had the ability to manufacture machine guns and he had heard discussions of doing so by Koresh and of making grenades, were from the March-June 1992 period. * Did Aquilera understand differences between the types of weapons named? * He mischaracterized the legal definition of a machine gun; * He confused the legal definition of "destructive devices" and "firearms"; * He called E-2 Kits "E-Z Kits" and did not mention that not all of them are for machine gun parts. * Did Aquilera consider whether the weapons he listed were an unusual amount for a "household" of 100 people, given that in Texas the average number of guns is 4 per resident? (Note: after the fire, the actual number of guns found at site was 200). * Aquilera reported a neighbor had complained about a November 8, 1992 burst of "machine gun" fire from the compound. [QUESTION FOR READERS: Koresh allegedly checked with County sheriff's office to make sure his "Hell Fire" device which sounded like a machine gun was legal. Does anyone know *when* he did so?] * Why did Aquilera report that a deputy sheriff had heard a large explosion and seen smoke at Mt. Carmel on November 6, 1992, when the sheriff didn't consider it important enough to go investigate for illegal activity or injuries? * Social worker Joyce Spark alleged that Koresh mentioned that when he, Koresh, the "Messenger from God," reveals himself and the world comes to an end, the riots in Los Angeles would pale in comparison to what would happen in Waco. In the affidavit Sparks claims Koresh made the statement on April 6, the last time she was at the compound and three weeks before the LA riots began. * How could the following allegations possibly be construed to imply that the Branch Davidians were anything other than registered gun dealers? * David Block said he saw Donald Bunds designing a machine gun on an Auto Cad computer. * Spark's allegations that a young boy wanted to grow up so he could handle a gun and practice like the men always did. * Undercover agent Rodriguez alleges Koresh said God gives humans a right to bear arms; that he subscribed to a publication called "Shot Gun News"; then showed him a movie by the "Gun Owners Association" that "portrayed BATF as an agency who violated the rights of gun owners by threats and lies." * Two allegations that he had shown an interest in a book called the "Anarchist Cookbook." * A former member's allegations that Koresh subjected the members to violent "training films" of Vietnam war (actually Hollywood movies), "forced" members to stand guard over the center 24 hours a day, and to always possess a weapon. * Matters not under AFT purview: * Child abuse: The affidavit mentions allegations of child abuse and Spark's investigation but does not mention that the case was closed on 4/30/92 with no evidence of child abuse. [QUESTION: Would this failure to provide information have been enough to nullify the warrant?] * Illegal Immigration: allegations about illegal immigrants. * Drugs: mentioned that a machinist, Marshal Keith Butler, was associated with Vernon Howell and that on the property had been arrested [sic] * Tax resistance: Koresh allegedly told undercover agent Rodriguez he didn't pay local taxes. * Director of BATF Stephen Higgins told Congress that there was no probable cause as of December, 1992. What changed to prompt the February 28, 1993 raid? * Aquilar's bottom line complaint was that Koresh's pattern of buying weapons was similar to that of others who were manufacturing machine guns. Should this be enough to support either a search warrant or a raid by 100 armed men? 2. Given that there was not probable legal cause for a raid, what were the real motivating reasons for the raid? * Punishing Koresh? The affidavit mentioned that he watched movies from anti-BATF "Gun Owners Association" (Gun Owners of America) * Was the real purpose of the raid to get publicity to help BATF in its appropriation hearing of 3/10/93? Was it to counter sexual harassment charges (_60 Minutes_ expose)? 3. This was a multi-task force raid. Which agencies were involved? Whose helicopters are being used? [QUESTION TO READERS: At what point was Governor Richards told that drugs were involved in order to obtain what National Guard help? Before or after raid?] 4. Did agents violate their orders to call off raid if their element of surprise was compromised? Robert Rodriguez allegedly stated that Koresh knew they were coming. Why did they continue the raid when they knew their security was compromised? Why did they lie and say they did not know their security was compromised? 5. Why was such overwhelming force used in the raid? * If officials feared firepower, why not arrest Koresh off the property or raid before dawn when everyone asleep? Why did they attack the compound on a Sunday? Why not attack on a Monday when more people are away? * Was there no consideration that most of the people in the house were women and children? 6. Who fired first? (If the agents did, under Texas law one can defend oneself). * Agent Rodriguez claims Koresh said he'd never let BATF get him "again" -- but they'd never gotten him before. If this is true, why did they let Rodriguez go when they knew he was a BATF agent? * Dick DeGuerin says that Koresh and survivors said that BATF attacked with screams, no announcement that they had a warrant, and started shooting at Koresh when he answered the door. That's when they all ran and got their guns to defend themselves. Martin, on audio tape after the attack, claims that "I have a right to defend myself. They started firing first." * Is there existing news or BATF footage of who shot first? Was that reviewed for the report? 7. Was there any shooting from the helicopters into the roof of the house, as Branch Davidians allege? If so, under whose orders? 8. What happened when agents went on the roof and into the second floor room? * Why is there news footage of an agent throwing a device into the room after other agents enter? Who is shooting back out at that agent? * Has the full un-edited news footage been looked at? Is there BATF monitor footage of this scene? 9. Are full autopsies of the four dead agents available? If so, is there any evidence that they were shot by friendly fire? 10. Were there any incidents of self-inflicted wounds or of friendly fire? If so, how many and what were the extent of the injuries? Why weren't these reported immediately after the raid? 11. Why was there no communications with local authorities or 911 operators, as is shown plainly in 911 tapes of the incident? 12. According to Dick DeGuerin, right after the April 28 raid BATF agents convinced Henry McMahon and his girlfriend that Koresh was going to try to kill them and talked them into accepting protective custody. BATF then took them to Oregon for the remainder of the siege. * Did BATF offer McMahon protective custody and take him to Oregon? * Did Koresh threaten McMahon? If not, why was this story fabricated? * Did BATF tell the Justice Department or the FBI about the existence of McMahon? 13. Why is the Treasury Department attempting to deny access to its findings in this matter? ------------- Some more that I want answered: o On the morning of the massacre, Bob Dicks (FBI) was holding a press conference where he was explaining the deployment of the tanks and tear gas. He was explicitly asked whether or not he was concerned about the possibility of a mass suicide. He answered that the FBI was confident that Koresh and his followers were not the suicidal types. Dicks said that this assessment had come from their expert crisis managers, who based their opinion from a variety of sources: talks with Koresh and other Davidians, listening devices, visitors to the compound, friends, and more. Dicks appeared quite certain of this. Moments later, of course, the first thing the FBI claimed was mass suicide. Was it a suicide? If so, how come the FBI was so wrong in their assessment? o Why did the FBI wait for a high-wind day to use tear gas? With 35 - 40 MPH winds and the holes that were being poked into the walls of the compound, tear gas would be blown right out of the buildings. High winds only help the spread of fire. o Was a telephone call placed to a nearby hospital at 6 AM on the morning of the massacre asking about burn treatment capacity? If so, were there also any questions asked about treating tear gas victims? o Are the reports of agent fatigue true? If so, what effect did this have on the decision to go forward with the tanks? Was there a time limit placed on the negotiations? If so, by whom? How was this limit determined? o Why were the vehicles surrounding the compound destroyed by tanks? Why weren't they examined and hauled off? Exactly what evidence was not destroyed by the FBI? How much evidence was destroyed? Under whose orders? For what purpose? o Were any rounds fired from the helicopter? Who saw bullet holes in the roof indicating that rounds were fired from the helicopter? Is there any evidence of "spray and pray" tactics being employed by the BATF during the attack? o Who invited the reporters? Why were they invited? o Where is the complete video footage of raid? o Were any BATF agents drinking in a local bar the night before? Were they bragging about how they were going to "kick some butt on Mount Carmel" the next day? o What exactly is the purpose of blaring loud music and other noises at night? How does it enhance the ability to monitor a group of suspects? How does it help to convey a sense of negotiating in good faith? ---------------------------- David J Harr [w--eh--d] at [netcom.com] [w--eh--d] at [cheshire.oxy.edu] DoD# 2147483647 cyberpunk & biker SCUM