From: [k d w] at [cle.ab.com] (Ken Whitehead) Date: 31 Jul 1995 11:34:26 GMT Subject: Waco Hearings - Day 8 NRA-ILA FAXLINE NRA Institute for Legislative Action 11250 Waples Mill Road * Fairfax, VA 22030 Phone: 1-800-392-8683 * Fax: 703-267-3918 7/28/95 NRA-ILA Special Report THE WACO HEARINGS: DAY EIGHT Surviving Branch Davidian Tells His Story Clive Doyle, a Branch Davidian who survived the Waco siege, testified today that there was no ambush of BATF agents and insisted BATF shot first. In his emotional account, Doyle said that most of the Davidians didn't know that they were being approached until moments before the federal officials pulled up to their property on February 28. Koresh told everyone to "be cool" and go to their rooms while he handled whoever was approaching their door. Doyle heard Koresh at the front door saying to wait, because there were women and children inside. The next thing Doyle heard were shots being fired which he believes came into the complex from outside. When Doyle reached the front door area, he saw that Koresh and Perry Jones had been shot in the wrist and stomach respectively. As the attack continued, several Davidians were shot, Doyle said, from helicopters flying around the house. Doyle said that there "was no murder of federal agents," that people were simply trying to defend themselves from what they thought were military forces using helicopters to attack them. Many Davidians feared retaliation after BATF agents were shot and began retreating. Doyle maintained that Koresh told the people in the complex to put their faith in God, not behind guns, and to put their guns down. Doyle said that most of the people in the house were unarmed anyway. He also said that while at no time was there any hatred toowards the BATF or FBI during the siege, things could have been handled far differently so that no one was hurt. Doyle testified that in the days following the initial attack, everyone in the complex had packed their bags and was preparing to leave the house at some point. The Branch Davidian went on to say that the children and adults in the house went through varying degrees of hell throughout the standoff. They were denied water and electricity, and were forced to endure loud music and bright lights, as well as immoral behavior by the agents. He described agents "mooning" the Davidians from their tanks. Doyle said that fear and distrust of the agents became widespread among the Davidians. They observed that those who did choose to leave were handcuffed and had their bibles taken away from them. Once the gas attack began, many parts of the building became blocked off, as well as many of the exits. Doyle said that most of the people did not have gas masks, and he described the agony that they went through. He said he could hear horrific screams behind him and could recognize the identity of the suffering by their voices. Doyle said the surrounds were pitch black and destroyed sections of the building blocked their communication with other Davidians in other parts of the Center. Around noon someone came into the chapel and told them that part of the building was on fire. Predictions of a Waco Rick Sherrow, a fire expert involved in the Waco tragedy, testified today that he predicted a situation similar to Waco two and a half years before Waco even occurred. He explained that there was a growing anti-gun mindset among the many young BATF recruits, as well as the agency as a whole, which was creating an increase in military-style tactics, seen in their armament, equipment and training techniques. Sherrow stressed that, for the most part, BATF has highly competent agents, but that there are "some bad apples." The agency's mindset, according to Sherrow, is that the bad guys are winning and we need to attack them, therefore, we are seeing an increase in battle gear and bigger guns. Did The Fire Experts Do Their Homework? Rick Sherrow questioned whether or not the authors of the government fire report fully investigated the properties of the chemicals that were used at Waco. Fire experts that testified before Sherrow claimed that CS gas is not readily ignitable, it is intended for use in closed quarters, and that the fire was not caused by the gas; however, Sherrow pointed out in his testimony that the Dow Chemical Corporation, manufacturers of the CS gas, reports that the vapor which carries the powder is flammable and it is designed for dispersal into open spaces. FBI Disarray is Questioned The possibility of disarray in the FBI was brought into question today as Rep. Jackson Lee asked William Sessions, former Director of the FBI, if the reason we had a Waco was because the FBI was in disarray. Mr. Sessions replied that from the time there was a change in the Administration, there was a great discussion concerning the replacement of the FBI director, however, the discipline and ability of the FBI was never impacted by that decision. He further commented that things were very political, and he agreed with Rep. Jackson Lee's observations that it could be that the FBI was impaired in its ability to be able to negotiate. Sessions said that the idea of an FBI director being directly involved in negotiations, because they were "home-town folk," was dismissed as "ridiculous and grandstanding." The former director concluded by stating that it was necessary to negotiate, be patient, and apply pressure, and since they did all three things, that indicates that neither the government nor the FBI was in disarray. A Violation of Rights? Mr. Sessions was asked to comment on the possibility of David Koresh's rights having been violated under the Second Amendment. He said that the BATF thought that Koresh was violating U.S. gun laws and "because he was in violation, he was answerable to a warrant for both arrest and for search." Sessions also stated that "all Americans are protected under the Second Amendment" and that the matter of keeping weapons, as long as they are not in violation of the law, is well described and well established. It is interesting to note that Mr. Sessions had at one time formed a secret task force to investigate guns bans and registration. It was his recommendation that the FBI, an agency most Americans feel should be above politics, come out in support of restrictive gun control. Mr. Sessions left the Bureau before anything came of his recommendations. Rep. Jackson Lee Questions a Possible Cover-Up Rep. Jackson Lee asked Webb Hubbell, former Associate Attorney General, to explain why he thought there was not a cover-up and why the White House was not to be blamed for the Waco tragedy. Hubbell stated that there was no cover-up and that he had never seen a situation examined the way Waco was. He said that the blame lies at the feet of David Koresh, not the President, the Attorney General, or the people at the table he was seated at. Hubbell also said, "I take responsibility for some of those decisions that were made to go into the compound. I was responsible. Other people at this table were responsible. The Attorney General was responsible. And we wish we had tried something else knowing what we know now." Hubbell pointed out that they are the ones who have to live with the decisions that they made and the wish they could take some of their decisions back. Reno takes her case to the Media Justice Department Gets Good Press For Waco Role Attorney General Janet Reno's defense of Justice Department and FBI actions gave the administration its best press of the Waco hearings, according to an ongoing study by the Center for Media and Public (CMPA). The study also found that the Justice Department has gotten the best overall press of all parties involved in the Waco hearings. Despite the Attorney General's press conference, however, NBC continued to pay more attention to the O.J. Simpson case than to Waco. According to CMPA, Janet Reno's press conference trumped the Congressional hearings in media coverage of Day 7. The Attorney General, who testifies next week, has already received more coverage (8 stories yesterday, 16 total) than any witness other than Kiri Jewell. She has also appeared in nearly as many Waco stories as Committee chairman Bill Zeliff (R-NH) and ranking minority member Charles Schumer (D-NY), who remain the leading newsmakers with 18 and 17 stories, respectively. Reno's spirited defense of the FBI's four gas assaults on April 19 led the administration to its best daily press of the hearings to date, CMPA research found. For day 7, 60% of all evaluations by sources and reporters supported the government's actions during Waco. Buoyed by coverage of testimony from FBI officials Jeffrey Jamar and Larry Potts, the FBI enjoyed its second consecutive day of mainly good press (57% supportive judgements) after taking a heavy hit (85% negative) on Day 5. CMPA research found that over the course of the hearings since July 19, only the Justice Department has received more support than criticism for its role in the Waco operation. Overall, positive evaluations of Justice have outstripped negative ones by a margin of three to two. By contrast, judgements are running 3 to 2 negative on the Treasury Department, 2 to 1 negative on the FBI (despite its recent rebound), and 3 to 1 negative on the ATF. Congressional investigators and groups associated with them have fared even worse, according to CMPA. The Congressional oversight committee has seen critics outnumber supporters of its activities by a 4 to 1 margin in news reports, and comments on the National Rifle Association have been 6 to 1 negative. CMPA research indicates that the heaviest criticism of government actions at Waco has come from the Washington Post, where negative judgements have outnumbered positive ones by a 4 to 1 margin. The government's defenders have fared best on the network news programs, where the margin narrowed to 3 to 2 negative. On NBC, O.J. Sock Is News, CS Gas Isn't NBC led its Thursday evening newscast with the Susan Smith and O.J. Simpson trials but limited its Waco coverage to a 16-second summary, despite the attorney general's news conference. CMPA noted that NBC's total coverage for the past three nights was 45 seconds. Overall, NBC's Nightly News has devoted only half as much airtime to the hearings as its rivals on ABC and CBS. Meanwhile, PBS's MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour went over the 60-minute mark in Waco Coverage, nearly twice as much as ABC, CBS and NBC combined. EVEN LOWER MEMBER DISCOUNT ON TRANSCRIPTS!! Complete transcripts of the hearings are available to NRA members for an even LOWER DISCOUNT RATE of $9.95 a day!! Call Jack Graeme at the Federal News Service at 1-800-969-3677 to receive a daily transcript. Be sure to mention that you're an NRA member to secure the incredible discount rate. Hearing quotes excerpted from Federal News Service transcripts. =+=+=+=+ This information is provided as a service of the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action, Fairfax, VA. 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