From: [p b mether] at [dingo.cc.uq.oz.au] (Maria Etheridge) Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: DMT FAQ IS HERE! Date: 22 Aug 1994 21:26:31 GMT DMT FAQ I found at one of the archives.... --------------- DMT is Dimethyl Tryptamine = N,N Dimethyl 3-amino-ethyl indole. It is a powerful hallucinogen, the prototype of this class, and chemically related to psiloc(yb)in and more distantly to LSD. Dose: around 60 mg. Method of ingestion: usually smoked (inactive orally at reasonable doses.) Can be combined with monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOI) to make it orally active and increase the duration. Could be snuffed or or injected. Duration of action: 2-5 minutes of peak, around half an hour of cruise. Side effects: Stimulation and tactile hallucination during trip. No perceivable after-effects. No known long term side effects. May be some link with schizophrenia, since it has been detected in vivo. History: is a component of some snuffs used by South American natives. also used in combination with MAOIs (harmaline etc.). Availability: Very rarely available from dealers; rarely synthesised. Available from a range of natural sources. Psychological effects: A very intense but brief trip, not really euphoric. Can be frightening because of the sudden onset. Not really a party drug, rather an interesting experience. More intense than LSD, but hallucinations and perceptual changes are of a somewhat different nature. (these are only my opinions and recollections) J ============================================================================= There are three issues here which are a little confused: 1) strength in the sense of effective dose, 2) strength in terms of subjective intensity, 3) being a superior hallucinogen in some subjective sense. Comparing DMT and LSD, the first is easy. The effective dose of LSD is around 100 ug, of DMT is around 60 mg, so in this sense, LSD is a much stronger hallucinogen. In terms of intensity, they are difficult to compare. Part of the intensity of DMT stems from the fact that the onset is virtually instantaneous; one is taken from feeling normal to the peak of the trip in the space of a few seconds, and this can be totally disorienting and frightening. DMT does not have the euphoria of LSD, in fact it can be quite uncomfortable. Also, the smoking of DMT is quite unpleasant compared with eating some small object. The types of hallucinations experienced within the peak of the DMT trip differ markedly from those in the peak of the LSD trip. This difference is very hard to describe, although one might contrast the dripping flowing colourful experience of LSD with the DMT visuals in which everything becomes super sharp to the point of being ripped into fragments, like placing a photo in a blender. There is some colour enhancement, but it is more like lightning-bolts of colour rather than flowing ripples of colour, and colours may be actually entirely changed and several multiple images seen at once. The 20-30 minute come-down of DMT is similar in experience and intensity to a small dose of LSD, however one is likely to be too shattered by the initial peak to worry about this much. The account Bob posted is highly subjective and metaphorical (as is this one, I suppose) and I doubt that many people would experience DMT in the way described there. However, extending the duration of DMT by the use of monoamineoxidase inhibitors (Ayahuasca,Yage,etc.) is supposed to be a very intense experience and could give one time to become more involved in it. It is possible to lose all contact with the senses and the world briefly while on DMT, as it is, e.g. from a combination of nitrous oxide and LSD. Also, psiloc(yb)in seems to have some similarity to DMT whilst retaining similarity to LSD, in that during the psilocin experience one can be transported into a different reality, although one which is still definitely based sensually on this one, and not be able to remember or understand everday reality. Other hallucinogenic experiences, e.g. the delerium caused by anti-cholinergics, might be still more intense than DMT in terms of being completely removed from traditional reality, but I don't think anyone would recommend experimenting with these dangerous substances. In terms of which is the superior hallucinogen, it depends on your taste. DMT is very interesting and extremely intense, but not necessarily pleasant. LSD has more potential for pure recreation. Most people would probably prefer LSD as a recreational hallucinogen, and it would be ill-advised for someone who was not very familiar with coping with the intensity of LSD to be thrust into the intensity of DMT. On the other hand, if you don't like DMT, you only have to hang on for a few minutes, whereas if you don't like LSD you have to hang on for several hours. This is, of course, apart from the dosage, all subjective. J ========================================================================= 152.94.1.10 (L`HOMBRE INVISIBLE) writes: >INDOLE ETHYLAMINES >------------------ >Many plants contains psychedelic tryptamines : > Piptadenia Peregrina > Phalaris Grundinacea > Mimosa hostillis > Desmanthes illioiensis > Arundo Donax > etc. >The DMT/5-methoxy-DMT ... is often located in the roots of the plant Depends on the species - some contain it in the leaves or the bark. >My question is : >Is it possible to smoke the plant-material directly or do you have to >exctract >it first ?. I don't know as much about 5-Me-O DMT as DMT. THere is an important difference, which is the dose. The former is effective at about 5mg-10mg from memory, the latter at 30-60mg. Thus, it is possible to obtain sufficient 5-Me-O DMT from smoking some impure unrefined sources (such as the poison of Bufo alvarius).. Considering DMT as opposed to 5-Me-O DMT (which is IMHO by far the more desirable material), and recalling that most people find the peak of a DMT trip only to last a very few minutes after smoking (i.e. you have to smoke it all at once, within a few tokes, to obtain the peak) you can easily calculate the necessary purity. Let us say, that one is capable of smoking 100mg of material in a few seconds. THis means that a DMT containing mixture should be at least 30% pure to get sufficient effect, and a 5-Me-O DMT mixture should be at least 5% pure. In actual fact, it is not quite as bad as this, because if you are using a free-base pipe, you can get away with lower purities because the DMT is quite volatile, so initially, the smoking process will concentrate the DMT. Comparing this to plant matter, which might be e.g. 0.3% DMT, and you see at once, that you would need to smoke about 10 g in a few seconds which is unrealistic. Hence, chemical purification is necessary. The alternative is to take the plant source orally in combination with the hallucinogenic monoamineoxidase inhibitor harmaline (and related alkaloids). These are most readily obtained from Peganum harmala (or Banisteriopsis caapi) and serve to activate and potentiate tryptamines, increasing intensity and duration and giving oral activity to DMT. > What are the effects (Like the pure stuff (DMT)) ? A small amount gives a wierd feeling in the body and some perceptual change. A larger amount gives strong body feelings and heavy visual effects , somewhat similar to LSD, but much more based around geometry, and changes of shape perception. A very large dose is totally awesome, and people's responses differ, from catatonia, to screaming, to total ecstasy. Some people describe it as a religious experience. Many people find they completely leave our universe for the duration, which is generally up to 5 minutes, with residual effects up to half an hour. B >Which plant(s) are best suited ? (Highest in DMT) There are various possibilities. Since chemical purification is generally necessary, the plant content is not vitally important. Most important is supply - the best species is one which grows locally, and in the US, the best source is probably Desmanthus illinoensis. If you wish to receive instructions on how to chemically purify DMT from a plant source, and more information about the effects of DMT, mail me at: but do not hassle the owner of this account by replying to this address. J =========================================================================== {In article <[1992 Dec 22 212054 16140] at [shearson.com]>, [c--i--s] at [somewhere] (Curious Furious) writes: > > Hi knowledgeable folks, > I have a few questions from a FOAF: > > 1) When smoking DMT what is the LD50 ? Can it cause a heart attack? > Certainly much higher than the amount beyond which one would have no concept of what a pipe, DMT, oneself, etc. is. Also much higher than the amount one could get into ones body by smoking before it was metabolised. I imagine that even if one hooked oneself to a machine which continously fed oxygen, nitrogen, and DMT vapour it would still be hard to _physically_ overdose. As for heart attack, I have no idea. I can imagine being scared to death (literally). > 2) Has anyone tried doing DMT while on MDMA ? Any complications ? No idea. However, one of the most striking things about DMT is its brutalness - the rush from completely baseline to another universe in about five seconds. Starting off baseline does little to alter the peak (which tends to override anything) but alters the severity of the onset. > > 3) Has anyone tried doing DMT while on 'rooms? Any complications ? Yup - similar to above, except moreso. It takes a large dose for the effects of the DMT to become visible over the effects of the trip (likewise for LSD). Also, it is harder to trip on DMT post psilocybin or LSD, since there is some cross tolerence. Some combinations with DMT are worthwhile. A couple of beers beforehand bluntens and deadens a little which can be very helpful. A good amount of heads will add to the visual impact, and a good amount of hash will ad to the wierdness and otherness. N2O & DMT is interesting, but the combination is generally intense enough to cause amnesia, and lack of any kind of regular consciousness for the period of intoxication. > > 4) In the book _Archaic Revival_, Terence McKenna mentions some studies > that found that DMT is produced heavily while in the deepest stages > of sleep. Anybody have a reference for that? Interesting concept. Like much of McKenna's work, I expect that the science to back him up is scanty, non-existant, or occasionally wrong. Makes for a good story, though. > > 5) Since DMT is a naturally occurring substance in the human body, > if a machine was created which could extract DMT from your own > blood, would that machine be considered illegal? My limited understanding of US law suggests that if humans contain DMT then their entire weight can be counted as DMT (since the carrier weight can be included) Such a theoretical machine as you suggest would be covered by paraphernalia laws? > > 6) Can any MAOI be used to render DMT active orally? > Lamont is the expert on this, and he says yes. I am not convinced, and I don't think there is any proper research published on the subject. Even in the case of the traditional harmaline/DMT interaction, the scientific data is minimal, and it is surmise only that the DMT is orally activated by the MAOI effect of the harmaline and not by some other effect. I hope someone else will fill in the missing details. > > thank you for your time. > my pleasure. J ============================================================================= With respect to orally activating DMT with an MAOI, Dennis McKenna has this to say in his '84 review article in J. Psych. Drugs 16(4): "The potentiation of the behavioral and pharmacological effects of tryptamine derivatives by MAOIs has been investigated, although the specific question of the oral potentiation of DMT and other parenterally- active derivates has apparently not been investigated. The effects of DMT in human volunteers was assessed before and 3 days after treatment with the MAOI iproniazid (Sai-Halasz 1963). Patients receiving DMT at a reduced dose following the iproniazid treatment experienced none of the visual illusions or disturbances of time and space perception that typify the symptoms of the drug. They reported only a feeling of "strangeness." Patients receiving a dose equivalent to that prior to iproniazid had a two-phase response. The first stage was similar to the usual DMT effects, but less pronounced: illusions and hallucinations were present but less colorful and only manifested themselves with the eyes closed. The second phase was characterized by a persistent feeling of "strangeness" to which the patients often reacted negatively or indifferently. Based on these trials, Sai-Halasz (1963) speculated that the reduced effects may have been due to the higher 5-HT concentration in the brain due to MAO inhibition, thus mitigating the 5-HT blocking effects of DMT. This speculation was also supported by the observation that prior administration of 1-methyl-d-lysergic acid butanolamide, a powerful serotonin antagonist, greatly exacerbated the psychotomimetic effects of DMT (Sai-Halasz 1962)." So, it would appear that the answer to question 6 hasn't been established. However, some studies (mentioned above) seem to have been done demonstrating an interaction between MAOIs and DMT. J handled most of those questions better than I could, so I don't have much else to add. I doubt there have been any deaths attributable to DMT use. Also, I don't recall endogenous DMT in humans and Dennis doesn't mention it in his review article so it is either recent (post 1984) knowledge or it is a misprint by the poster or publisher and should refer to a related tryptamine. Or maybe it's another revalation from the self-constructing machine elves. --M@ =========================================================================== well i went to Melbourne recently, (so recently i got back yesterday) and i had the "opportunity" to try DMT. i smoked it as crystals through a crack pipe, and this is what i can remember: i had 3 and 1/2 maybe 4 tokes before i couldn't smoke anymore. this took about 20 seconds. everything around me faded out, and a guy shouting in the distance sounded like he was shouting from a subway, (echoed). the guy i was with told me to get up and run around, and when i did that everything started melting and i lost the outside world completely. i thought that this is what it is like to be god, i was very scared, there where two sort-of thoughts in my mind: this is what a bad trip is like, and then i thought if this is a bad trip then it can't hurt me cause it is all in my mind. then i lost that thought, and i have sitting in the middle of a great calm. sitting figuratively, cause i didn't have a body. i opened my eyes, and i had a glimpse of the outside world, for the breifest instant, and then it started to move like a living moving escher picture. and it was completely alien. then i closed my eyes, and i saw these interlocking frames of gold moving into each other and i was moving into them. i thought that i had been inside this place for eternity, and i thought that i was never going back (to where?) i must have still known that there was somewhere else. i completely forgot words. i couldn't think of what things were because think of what to call them. yesterday (three days later), i was still remembering words. the first that i remembered was mother. but i couldn't remember who she was. i couldn't remember who i was. and then i slowly came back to reality.(Virtuality) i realised that i had a body and the thing that i was staring at was my own leg. i don't think that my Virtuality will ever be the same again. nothing can prepare you for utter devastation, which is DMT, unless you take lots and lots of LSD maybe. i have taken that much LSD, cause my DMT was nothing like. my advice is to take it, with someone you trust in a quiet, safe place. and just do it man! :) see ya round the traps, and Don't Eat the Datura! (you have to smoke it) -- The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service. internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80 ========================================================================== This is from _The Psychedelic Guide to the Preparation of the Eucharist, in a few of its many guises_, as edited by Robert E. Brown and associates of the Neo_American Church League for Spiritual Development & the Ultimate Authority of the Clear Light (1968), 2nd edition (1971) DMT Synthesis STEP I Using an area of good ventilation or a fume hood, place a 1000 ml two hole roundbottom flask in an ice bath using the setup in Figure II (you want a wobble stirrer in the top hole of the flask, and a separatory dropping funnel into the side entry). Add 400 ml cold anhydrous ether to the flask, in which 60 g indole is then dissolved, using the stirrer. To 100 ml anhydrous ether in a separatory funnel add 50 g oxalyl chloride. Slowly drip this solution into the vigorously stirred indole solution over a period of 10 to 15 minutes. Continue stirring 10 minutes longer. Allow the precipitate to settle a few minutes and decant the liquid. Add anhydrous ether and mix well. When satisfied as to the purity of the precipitate, leave the golden precipitate in the flask for the next step, which must follow immediately. Yield is approximately 100 g. STEP II Dimethylamine reacts readily with indole oxalyl chloride. Use about 400 ml ice cold anhydrous ether in the same 2 neck 1000 ml RB flask used in Step I, with the precipitate in it from Step I. Cool the ice bath further by using salt and ice. Estimate the weight of the precipitate and use 100 g indole oxalyl chloride. For this weight of IOC use two entire 50 g containers of diethylamine since it will not keep if the container seal is broken. Cool the amine in container much below 0 C and dissolve 1 part amine in 3 parts anhydrous cold ether. Amine may be stored in this solution. For use, warm stock solution to room temperature and use the appropriate aliquot. Set up the entire apparatus the same as when adding the oxalyl chloride. Add the amine solution slowly to the IOC with vigorous stirring. Stir for 1/2 hour after the addition is complete. Vacuum filter the precipitate, using ether as a wash. It is better to slurry the ether water with the precipitate before filtering [method used]. Recrystallise from hot ethanol or from a 50-50 methanol-benzene mixture. STEP III Prepare apparatus as in Figure II (1-hole 1000 ml RB flask set in heating mantle on magnetic stirrer with stir bar in flask, and condenser inserted into top of flask). Prepare the indole glyoxyl amide by melting and casting into sticks if ether is to be used as a solvent. Aluminium foil makes a good mould for casting pieces that will fit through the condenser. Also a Soxhlet extractor may be used to add the crystals by slow solution into the ether. Tetrahydrofluran, if available, dissolves IGA and the compound is added slowly in the solution form [method used]. To a stirred mixture of 15 g LiAlH4 in 100 ml anhydrous ether (or THF [used]) slowly add the sticks (or solution [used]) of IGA until 20 g have been added. Keep the rate of reaction at a reasonable rate or boil-over may occur [do say!]. Stir and reflux for 90 minutes after the addition is complete. Cool in an ice bath and begin to cautiously [do say!] hydrolyse with chips of ice or a cold solution of methanol, added through the condenser. When there is no further reaction, add a few ml extra water and allow to settle finally and decant the clear liquid into an evaporating vessel. Filter the residue and wash several times with ether-methanol or THF-methanol [used]. Evaporate the combined extracts and if necessary, seed the heavy syrup with crystals of DMT. With no seed crystals the product may take days or even weeks to crystallise [weeks]. This crude product is adequate for smoking [do say!]. In order to purify DMT, begin after the LiAlH4 has been hydrolysed with methanol. Add 500 ml satd. Na2SO4 solution, mix and filter. Wash with ether or THF and neutralise the filtrate with 0.1 N HCl. Extract with ether in a separatory funnel and neutralise the lower layer with 0.1 N NaOh, extracting this solution in turn with chloroform. The chloroform layer is dried over anhydrous Na2SO4, concentrated, and from it DMT crystallises on addition of petroleum ether. The mother liquor can be chromatographed on an alumina column using benzene-methanol in a 99.8 to 0.2 ratio. [This last purification is quite difficult.] -- John Collier Email: [j--ll--r] at [ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au] HPS -- U. of Melbourne Fax: 61+3 344 7959 Parkville, Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3052 ============================================================================= Newsgroups: alt.drugs From: J Subject: Re: DMT Ingestion Methods Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 14:53:35 GMT DMT is a powerful hallucinogen. No one should take it for granted or use it lightly. It is also illegal, although natural sources are uncontrolled. In article <[1993 Jul 1 020634 2524] at [mixcom.mixcom.com]> Nathan.Bowen <[Nathan Bowen] at [mixcom.mixcom.com]> writes: > Lately, there has been an increasing interest among alt.drugs >posters concerning DMT in its many forms. I'm finding the many accounts >of experiences quite intriguing, but I am still pretty thoroughly in the >dark concerning methods of usage. I believe I understand to a >reasonable extent the various methods themselves, but I cannot find >sufficient information on the benefits or drawbacks of them. I seek >both scientific evidence and subjective reports of the desirability of >given methods from people who are in a position to know. > > In my understanding, eating/drinking is probably the least desirable >method, in that it requires a monoamine oxidase inhibitor to be active >orally. Each method of ingestion has its own advantages and disadvantages. Oral DMT/harmaline is potentially the best method of ingestion in terms of having a truely profound experience of useful duration. Coming on to the experience a little more slowly gives the user some time to adjust and to cope with and explore the altered state. Oral DMT is probably the only viable route for most alt.drugs readers, who can obtain the plants but who don't have the necessary experience and equipment to sufficiently purify DMT for smoking, and who do not have access to synthetic DMT. Unfortunately, the liquors produced by boiling up plant DMT sources may well make the user puke. Although an account of a very successful ayahuasca experience >was recently posted that confirmed the possibility of desirable effects >resulting from oral consumption, the prolonging effect of the >preparation involved seems to undermine the highly-acclaimed temporariness >of the DMT experience (hence the Businessman's Trip). > Well, the temporariness makes the intensity bareable when the material is smoked. The oral experience is gentler, but just as profound, if not moreso. Smoked DMT is so brutal, and the effect can be so profound, that after much experience, all I could say was that I couldn't say anything adequate about it, and so I gave up on it. > The most common form of ingestion, at least among the accounts on >the 'net, is smoking. There are inherent disadvantages to inhaling the >gases given off by burning matter, but I don't see any way around it, >and it seems that smoking is also the most accepted method for a >pleasurable experience. Don't make the mistake of calling DMT pleasurable - that may or may not be one of its side-effects :). In fact, apart from the physical, smoked DMT is more likely to be dysphoric than oral DMT. A single user may have one DMT trip which is totally orgasmic, and then another which is totally horrific, and then another that is neither. Smoking the chemical is particularly unpleasant to the mouth, throat, and lungs, and some people find it an impossible task. I don't see how, logically, a water bong or >some such device could be implemented here, but I'm definitely willing >(and eager) to be proven wrong. > Hot DMT vapours are somewhat soluble in water; if you are smoking the chemical, then mostly what you are getting is its vapour, and there is little you can do to improve the quality. > The other methods that have been mentioned are snuffs (a la the >native South American rituals) The South American snuffs contained various tryptamines. It is well nigh impossible to get a sufficient dose of DMT from a snuffed plant source - the concentrations just aren't high enough. Likewise smoking a plant. The major active in the snuffs was probably 5-MeO-DMT. and injection (for which I can find no >references). Lots of experiments in the 60's. If you have something pure enough to inject, you might as well smoke it and save yourself the hassle. Likewise, there is probably little advantage to snorting the pure chemical over smoking it. J ============================================================================= Newsgroups: alt.drugs From: [p--er--e] at [media.mit.edu] (Pierre St. Hilaire) Subject: Re: DMT Ingestion Methods Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 14:50:39 GMT > The other methods that have been mentioned are snuffs (a la the >native South American rituals) and injection (for which I can find no >references). The snuffs have been reputed as bringing on rapid and >powerful effects, and that seems to correspond with my knowledge of >snuffed/injected drugs. I do not, unfortunately, have a sufficient >amount of information on the safety of these methods. I do understand >the inherent dangers of sending the material directly to your >bloodstream, in that any impurities will follow just as easily. Other >than that, I am fairly in the dark. This is where the bulk of my >request lies. Are these methods as efficient and desirable as they seem >at the outset? And, even if they aren't, how do they rank with oral use >or smoking? Opinions are as welcome as facts, and any reply will be >greatly appreciated. If I get a large enough response, I'll try to >compile a FAQ or short informational file of some sort. > My experiences and those of others point to the fact that the subjective effects of tryptamines vary markedly with the route of absorbtion. While smoking often results in overwhelming experiences it is possible to have more psylocibin like effects by snorting or eating small amounts in conjunction with P harmala seeds. It seems also that 5-MeO-DMT and DMT, whose effects differ considerably when smoked, seem to "converge" in subjective effects when taken orally. I wonder if other knowledgeable people on the net could substanciate that last claim. Of all the psychedelics, short acting tryptamines seem to have the most non linear dose-responses curve. Taking twice a barely active dose will often result in an intense experience! That is the reason why you should be very careful when taking them orally. I recently found a very interesting and potentially safer way to use 5-MeO-DMT. The key is to dissolve it in distilled water and put the solution in one of those nose spray bottles in such a way that each inhalation will dispense about 3-4 mg (Don't screw up there!). When taken as a nose spray the effects come on more slowly than smoked (about 1 min. instead of a few sec.) and the effect is more spread out in time. The nice thing is that it is possible to very accurately control the dose, which makes the trip a lot more manageable. Taken in that manner, the effect can be fairly similar to psilocybin, with the advantage that it is possible to come down within half an hour. I guess this method could be used with DMT, but you would probably have to convert the base into a salt (for higher solubility) since you need a 10x higher concentration of DMT in the solution. Pierre St Hilaire MIT Media Lab ============================================================================= Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives,alt.drugs From: [m--h--s] at [sibelius.trl.OZ.AU] (Steven Mathers) Subject: a DMT trip Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 04:16:44 GMT Posting this account for a FOAF..... -------------------------- I lay back in the couch, feeling nervous anticipation and a little bit like a lab specimen, with everyone forming a semi-circle around me except for J who was 'packing' the pipe for me -- (with malice and forethought, I now realize :-) He held the pipe while I toked, which turned out to be a wise move. The first toke produced nothing. I held it in for a few seconds and exhaled, and imediately went to take a second. As I started to draw the second hit, the effects of the first came down upon me. I felt stunned, and as J later accurately described, as if I had hold of a live wire. Christian was sitting cross legged on the floor in my field of vision, and a pattern like a single elongated slinky became part of all his limbs and the rest of his body. He was a spring man. I became more disoriented as this picture began to frgament and reality rapidly started to vanish. From somewhere, J urged me to take the third hit (the cad!) and I somehow managed to start to inhale in the vicinity of the pipe. I was told later that this was a good one, but I didnt feel as if it was working. In another almost instantaneous jump, it all became too much and I had to sit upright in the chair. My eyes were said to have been completely wide open, although I was not aware of it. The last thing to make any sense was the sudden, surprised exhalation of the final lungfull of smoke. What followed is dificult to describe because Im sure that my brain was functioning normally enough for me to remember anything during only a small percentage of the time spent under the influence of the DMT. During that period I was not really aware of anything that makes sense now, and Im not sure if it might have made sense at the time, but I doubt it. Time certainly had no meaning, because although I was spaced for ten minutes, I only have memories that might cover a few seconds here and there, and even those seemed to happen simultanesouly in some instances. The bits that did make sense enough for me to be aware of them were very, very strange indeed. DM seems mainly to affect the sight, cognition and hearing. The only physical sensations I felt were a choking sensation for much of the time that I was aware, and towards the end of the experience, a feeling that I had had a bowel movement (I hadn't). It turned out later that I had merely been hyper-ventilating. The visuals, once I had gone from 'springland' to full on space-out, were not of anything vaguely related to what was in front of my eyes. In fact it didnt matter if I had my eyes open or closed -- I had to ask if my eyes had been open or closed during the main part of the trip, and was told they had been both at various stages. It was mostly intense flashes of solid pure colours -- no pastels or hues, just wham! I described it to Ronny as like being inside a cyber-simulation like 'The lawnmower man', only it had crashed and was throwng garbage at me from all directions. Sound had more meaning when I was able to perceive it. At times I actually caught and understood a few phrases of conversation that was going on around me. More often though, the wrong buttons in my brain must have been pushed, because it sounded as if people were speaking random sylables at me. The nearest I can come is 'Bill and Ben' floblle-obble-lop language of a digital purity. I later confirmed that the snatches of conversation I interpreted as English did in fact occur. One was probabaly J saying something about choking, which was alarming becuase I felt as though I was having trouble breathing at the time. Whatever brain processes that are responsible for locating sound sources were also affected. Sound came from random directions, and from inside my head. Suprisingly, volume was not affected, other than for most of the time I was not able to hear anything. If I felt any emotion at all, it was detatched terror, and I was definately sure that I wanted the experience to end. It was all the more frightening because it seemed to be going on forever, and yet it was over in an instant. My impression is that while LSD and more familiar pschadelics alter the normal brain activity in some fasion or other, DMT works at a more fundamental level that alters brain chemistry to such an extent that it does not function as a thinking brain for a large part of the time (well at least not for me). Imagine that the part of your brain responsible for speech is connected to the part responsible for breathing, and the coordination part to your ears, and visuals to bowels, and that sort of thing -- completely differently arranged. The resulting state is distinctly alien, and goes someway to explaining to me what the absolute limits of psychosis must be before one actually ceases to be able to think. After the instant/endless period of total crazinessi, normal cognitive reality started to come back in waves. The visuals returned back to 'spring land'; I became aware that I was now laying there with head thrown back, legs spread and mouth agape. People seemed to be asking me questions. I raised my head a few times and then let it fall back again as reality waxed and waned. For the next 5 minutes I gently returned to a shell-shocked state of normality, accompanied by the now trivial pattern halucinations and distortions in surfaces like carpet and walls. J asked me just before the first toke if I were ready for the trip, and I said that I was. Ha ha. He said 'Oh no you're not', and he was definately right. Completely disregard this whole description because it cant begin to describe the experience in anything but the most vague terms. ------------------ [s mathers] at [trl.oz.au] ============================================================================= From: [h--tt--r] at [cs.utexas.edu] (John Eichenseer) Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: Re: DMT extraction Date: 11 May 1994 13:19:35 -0500 >I am trying to extract DMT from Desmanthus illinoensis. Ah, good luck, and do post your results... > So, what do you think? Will this method work? Is there any >better way that is easier (this is pretty easy) or more efficient? In his book Pharmacotheon, Jonathan Ott mentions experiments in which he extracted the alkaloids via boiling water. In fact, I think he may have just strained hot water through the finely ground material, like making coffee. He did this in order to mix it with an MAOI (harmala seeds) for oral ingestion. I believe he goes into much more detail in his latest book, Ayahuasca Analogs. Can anybody comment on the viability of this technique? It does seem even easier than the acid-base extracion, although of course it would not yield the smokable freebase. Just curious, jhno ============================================================================= From: [b--an--h] at [sc9.intel.com] Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives Subject: dmt experience Date: 4 Jun 94 18:14:18 PDT dmt --- isn't that an interesting memory!? i had the good fortune of being turned on by someone that i trust it taste like i was smoking plastic -- very strange very quickly the trees outside began moving around wildly, as if i could suddenly see some type of animism things kinda melted -- i wasn't driving, had little control as soon as i started to worry, it started to fade away, then was gone (time for more) there was something dark about it that bothered me a great deal, mostly in a vague, can't put my finger on it way i know this sounds funny, but it felt like i was tapping into the dark side of the force (metaphor, not literal) all in all a very interesting experience not for the faint at heart or those who fear being out of direct control -------------------------- Ok, hope it helped, Meth.