From: "Nadler, David" <[n--dl--d] at [uh2297p01.daytonoh.attgis.com]> Subject: DQN - October 95 - v2n8 Date: Tue Nov 14 12:45 EST 1995 ================================================================ || || || DRAGONQUEST Newsletter October 1995 || || || || Volume 2 / Number 8 || ================================================================ The DQ Newsletter is for discussions of the DragonQuest role playing game. The key addresses you need to know are: Philip Proefrock (Editor, Article Submissions, Etc.) [p s proefr] at [miamiu.muohio.edu] David Nadler (Distribution Coordinator) [n--dl--d] at [daytonoh.ATTGIS.com] Drake Stanton (FTP Site Coordinator) [d--ac--e] at [netcom.com] All articles are copyrighted property of their respective authors. Reproducing or republishing an article, in whole or in part, in any other forum requires permission of the author or the moderator. The DragonQuest Newsletter also maintains an ftp archive site: [ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/dr/drache] which includes back issues of the newsletter and other articles of interest to DragonQuest players and GMs. ----------------------------------------------------------------- C O N T E N T S [v2n8] ================================================================= Administrivia - Dave Nadler Editorials - John Kahane, Joe Saul, Philip Proefrock Letters -- Philip Proefrock Column: The BEASTIARY -- Giant Spider Announcement: SPECIAL ISSUE ANNOUNCEMENT A DragonQuest Campaign in New Zealand -- Keith and Jacqui Smith Starting Skills and Mages -- Anthony T. Stanford News: Cerebus Archive Moves Column: DQ ARCHIVE -- College of Spider Magics Advertisements ----------------------------------------------------------------- ADMINISTRIVIA: ================================================================= It has become increasingly apparent that e-mail and I just don't get along at work. I apologize, on behalf of my companies network staff, for the bounces and delays many of you have received while trying to send messages to me. In fact, the delay for this months publication is due because Philip couldn't get the netletter across to me for more than two weeks. And to top it all off, I'm moving offices this week, which will mean that I'll be moving to a different e-mail server. I'm going to look into alternate methods of distributing the software, including sending it from a personal account I have at home with a commercial vendor. For the time being, please be patient, please keep sending messages and, to play it safe, send a copy of your message to Philip at the address shown in the header. Dave Nadler - ----------------------------------------------------------------- EDITORIAL: ================================================================= [This month's editoral space is given over to continuing the discussion about 'Intellect,' as presented in an article by John Kahane which appeared in an earlier issue (May 95). I think that this kind of discussion is good for the vitality of the Newsletter, as well as for the development of new DragonQuest material. -- ED.] The following is a reply to Joe Saul and his comments: Frankly, I expected to take a great deal of flack about this article, since it's going to be making a lot of the anti-D&Ders a bit nervous about a couple of things. But I am, if nothing else, flexible on this matter. JS> First, the characteristic seems like it would be even more of JS> an invitation to weenie abuses than Perception is... I can see exactly where you're coming from with this particular bit, and to be honest with you, I agree with you about it. The fact that DQ did not use a D&D-like mechanic for allowing players to roll their characters' way out of puzzles and situations appealed to me a lot, and I guess part of what has come up here is my own fault. I'll be posting up a copy of the mechanics rules for the Intellect statistic, but I'll clarify a couple of things for you right here. I don't use Intelligence, Intellect, or whatever you want to call it as a Characteristic in the true sense of the DQ system. I incorporated it originally to give the player characters a statistic that lets them determine whether they can recall something *in character*. I don't abuse this stat very often, since I prefer to run a roleplaying, as opposed to *roll*playing, game; that was all I envisioned the statistic doing at that time, and I didn't even use it all that often. When I conceived of the Secondary Skill system, it seemed only natural to use this already additional, relatively useless, statistic for the purposes of determining the number of secondary skills that a character can start with. The stat has *nothing* to do with "I want to make an Intellect roll" at all, and never did IN MY CAMPAIGN. I never fell into that D&D type of mentality about this to begin with, and I've always run a roleplaying game, as opposed to a dice-oriented one, to begin with. JS> Second, if you're going to have a new characteristic which is JS> so critical to the character's personality -- and believe me, JS> the ability to reason *is* -- you should at the very least let JS> the player decide how many points to put into it. I've never considered this to be an important statistic within the context of my campaign, and don't use it for the purpose that you mention (at least not consciously). I will admit that your point about allowing the player to decide how many points to put into the statistic is a valid one. I have a couple of optional methods of dealing with this allotment of points into Intellect, and these will be detailed in the additional piece that I'll send for one of the next issues of the DQ Newsletter. Please remember that I only posted the article on Secondary Skills, not the article about the additional Characteristic itself and how it's derived. (I'm not the first one who's guilty of not having articles appear detailing additional campaign material for certain new things, but this is par for the course, and I certainly did and do intend for the Intellect material to be published here as well.) Player choice is always something that I've encouraged in the DQ system and all of the campaigns that I run. The Intellect stat is no different in that regard. JS> As written, this option would seem likely to do a lot more JS> harm to a campaign than good. If Mr. Kahane uses it in his JS> own campaign, I assume he has safeguards in place -- but we JS> haven't seen them in the rules he submitted. I wouldn't JS> touch it with a giant glaive. Oh, you could touch it with a giant glaive; it's not that bad. :) I have to admit that the way your letter sounds, it comes off as showing a bias against the D&D stuff, which I certainly agree with. I *do* have safeguards in my system pertaining to this stat, but the rules I posted were not about the Intellect stat...they were meant to deal with the Secondary Skills themselves. Any GM who finds these Secondary Skills worthy of addition to his or her DQ campaign is free to make changes to these rules, to alter the manner in which Secondary Skills are determined, whatever he or she wishes. -- John Kahane ([j--h--e] at [sava.pinetree.org]) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. Maybe you do *use* the stat in a safe fashion, but here's your description of it: [3.10] Intellect is a measure of a character's powers of reason, and the ability to retain information and/or knowledge. Written that way, it's an invitation to exactly the kind of abuse I describe. It's cool to say "I use safeguards in my campaign," and based on your response I believe you do so, but when you're writing material to be used by others it is valuable to *write the safeguards in*. Do not assume that people who read your stuff will interpret it the same way you and your friends do. (There are similar problems in the _Amber_ rule book, to name a published case where I have direct knowledge.) If nothing else, my years as a technical writer taught me that people will misinterpret you in startling ways if given the opportunity. Write clearly, and write exactly what you mean. Which, I guess, is the moral of the story. -- Joe Saul ([j m saul] at [umich.edu]) ----------------------------------------------------------------- As an editorial followup to this discussion, I would like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that the DragonQuest Newsletter is a collection of fans of the game, most of whom have had no contact with other campaigns until very recently. Therefore, many of the articles that are appearing in the Newsletter are going to be first-drafts, perhaps polished, but still largely untested; and because this is not a professional publication, the level of development is not going to equal what you will find in a commercial product. Joe's comments do raise a good point, though, and I think it would be helpful for anyone who is submitting material to the Newsletter to include some description as to how the materials they are presenting are incorporated into their campaigns. At the same time, we should all remember that this is a Newsletter for the exchange of ideas, not a publication of finished work. I see this sort of discussion as the best thing that can happen for DragonQuest: by working out the weaknesses that other players and GMs find in our materials, we can refine them to a point where they *are* polished. I hope that this discussion will help to bring more submissions as well as to encourage more discussion about the things that do appear in the Newsletter. My appologies to John for 'jumping the gun' and publishing the materials that he sent about the Intellect value, but it seemed integrally connected to the Secondary Skills, and I didn't feel that I could leave that part out. --Philip Proefrock, DQN Editor ([p s proefr] at [miamiu.muohio.edu]) ------------------------_L_E_T_T_E_R_S_-------------------------- ================================================================= Although his article on Detect Aura was generally good, there are a few things that Dean Martelle assumes about the Detect Aura talent (spell) which I disagree with. Detect Aura is a talent which allows the adept to learn more about the *nature* of an object. It is long term features which contribute to an aura. Thus, a hobgoblin leaning against the other side of a door will have virtually no effect on the door's aura, and only a very skilled Adept who knows just what he is looking for will be able to find it. For this reason, too, I would not allow the Detect Aura to serve as a lie detector. Whether or not a statement a character makes is true isn't going to have a big impact on the makeup of that character's being. Besides, that's what the Truespeak spell (specialized Geas) is for. I also believe that a player must actively attempt to use the Detect Aura ability; as I interpret this Talent in my campaign, it is *not* always on. (It's called 'Detect Aura,' and not 'Aurasight.') Similarly, it cannot be used to "see in the dark." I don't see Detect Aura as a separate sense, but as a magical enhancement of a character's existing senses. For this reason, too, a character cannot use Detect Aura in the dark. The suggestions about requiring a period of time before one can make another attempt to Detect Aura on the same subject are especially good; I think that there are other instances in the DQ rules where similar restrictions need to be applied. -- Philip Proefrock ([p s proefr] at [miamiu.muohio.edu]) -------------------_The_ _B_E_A_S_T_I_A_R_Y_--------------------- ================================================================= Giant Spider -- Andrew South ([l--w] at [werple.mira.net.au]) The Giant Spider is a creature which results from a Special Knowledge spell of the College of Spider Magics (see the Archive for more info about this college). [The GM may wish to interpolate some statistics in order to use the Giant Spider as a creature, rather than a transformed adept.] The spell which brings about this transformation is as follows: SpS-11. Become Spider Range: Adept only Duration: 1 minute + 1 minute/Rank Experience Multiple: 500 Base Chance: 5% Resist: None Effects: This spell transforms the adept into a gigantic spider of hideous aspect. The creature will have the following statistics: Description: This abominable creature is usually venomous-looking in the extreme, and is of terrifying size. The most disturbing thing about it is probably the fact that the adept's intelligence can be plainly seen glittering in its multiple eyes. PS 15+Rank [23-29] FT 20+Rank [30-35] MD 1D5+15 [15-20] PC Adept's Own [15-22] AG 1D5+18 [18-23] AP Agility - 10 [5-10] MA Adept's Own [17-22] PB 1D5-1 [2-6] WP Adept's Own [16-23] BV None [ ?? ] EN 15+Rank [23-30] SZ 15 + Rank [ ?? ] Armour: The spider's tough skin will absorb 5 DP. Weapons: The spider may attack in either Melee or Close Combat with a vicious bite (Base Chance of 50% and [D+4] damage). The bite will have Rank equal to one-half the adept's Rank with this spell. If it inflicts effective damage, it injects a lethal venom that will inflict 5 points of damage each Round (+1 for every 4 Ranks, rounded down). Its effects last for a period of 1D10 Rounds. In Close Combat, the spider may also entangle a single opponent in webbing from its spinnerettes, which will have the effect of a Web spell (SpS-5) on that target only. Magic: While in spider form, the adept retains the ability to use any magic he is normally able to perform. ----------------------------------------------------------------- SPECIAL ISSUE ANNOUNCEMENT ================================================================= The December DQN will be a Special Issue devoted to goods tables, price lists, and the like. For this we need everyone to send in *ANY* materials they have that relate to this subject. If this works out, the December Issue will be a "Christmas Catalog" of additional goods and items and their prices for the DragonQuest world, along with related articles. Articless about the Merchant skill and other related topics may also be relevant for this issue. Please get all submissions for this issue to me by the end of November, so that I can get it all compiled and ready for December distribution. This is also a chance for those of you who don't have an article to submit to still contribute your two Silver Pennies worth! ----------------------------------------------------------------- A DRAGONQUEST CAMPAIGN IN NEW ZEALAND -- Keith and Jacqui Smith ([k--i--h] at [ihug.co.nz]) ================================================================= [This description came in attached to a survey reply from last month's issue. I thought it would be a useful thing to share with the entire Newsletter group right away, and so it is included. Don't you wish *you* lived in Auckland? -- ED.] Perhaps some explanation is appropriate. We are GMs and players in what I seriously suspect to be the biggest DQ campaign in progress anywhere in the world. It is called simply the Adventurer's Guild and is based in Auckland, New Zealand. This campaign has been running for (we think) about fourteen years. It involves about sixty to seventy people who between them control around two hundred player characters (personally we have three each). The organisation works like this: Every three months we have a Guild meeting of everybody involved. Part of this meeting involves GMs who are proposing adventures for the next three-month session annoucing those adventures in the persona of the party employer. Another part involves players in character giving out awards for the "Bravest Adventurer", the "Stupidest Adventurer", the "Best Death", and so on. Then there's "The Seagate Times", our quarterly in-character newsletter. Adventures are played in groups of five to seven on a weekly basis (usually 6:30pm to 10:30pm). The GM's meet once a month to co-ordinate the campaign and iron out bugs in the rules. You wouldn't believe the problems that arise in a multi-GM campaign with what we term mid to high-level characters. Part of the success of this campaign is the structure, part is the emphasis on role-playing as opposed to roll-playing, but part also is due to the way the DQ system itself assists good play. And it certainly is good to discover that we aren't the only people on the planet who play DQ. Yours in light and flame... Phaeton Solarmage and Flamis Firemage -- Keith and Jacqui Smith ([k--i--h] at [ihug.co.nz]) ----------------------------------------------------------------- STARTING SKILLS AND MAGES -- Anthony T. Stanford ([l--gi--n] at [netins.net]) ================================================================= Quite frankly, I am very hazy on what the written rules are governing this, but here is how we worked it: In the 1st edition, all skills cost 1000 EXP for rank 0, except the first one, which cost 100 EXP (see [8.6]). We treated Magic colleges as skills in this regard. With the 2nd edition, the cost to achieve Rank 0 varied by skill. We left the Colleges at 1000 EXP, subject to the one skill at 100 EXP rule. Basically, we felt your early life involved some background training in ONE field. If you were a mage, that was your early training. We also adjusted [8.6] to be 10% of the normal cost to obtain Rank 0, and restricted it to a skill choosen during character generation, but those are side issues. Warriors could, and usually did, pick up colleges much later in their careers. It takes six month's study to change your college if you are already a mage (see [34.5]), so we used that as the training time for a non-mage to become one, as well as the 1000 EXP and a qualified teacher. Other members of the party would be free to train or adventure throughout those six months. This is one reason warriors in our game weren't always mages (although the College of the Mind talent Resist Pain (T-2) was VERY popular for it's stun immunity). They lost the initial skill choice at 10%, and sidelining your character for half a year at later date was never very attractive. Moreover, the ability to pick up a college later (even at great cost) prevented beginning characters from adopting a college just to keep their options open later. Another reason warriors are not mages is already in the rules: [34.6] and [34.7] indicate that your MA must be greater than the number of general knowledge spells and rituals in a college before you can join it. This rule [34.7] has got to be the most incompletely implemented rule in most DQ campaigns, aside from Infection (which is supposed to happen after every combat). Those characteristic points have to come from somewhere else. There are two counterspells, BOTH General Knowledge, in each college that are listed in [31.3], but not under the colleges, and two General Knowledge rituals in [32.1] and [32.2], so there are four more General Knowledge spells and rituals in each college than are listed in the college description. Those extra four points make adopting a college a lot more expensive. Here is a table of MA minimums for each College: Ensorcelments & Enchantments 17 Sorceries of the Mind 12 Illusions 10 Naming Magics 0 (an exception per [34.7]) Air Magics 14 Water Magics 19 Fire Magics 13 Earth Magics 16 Celestial Magics 14 (only Dark mages can cast G-8: so they need 15) Black Magics 16 Necromantic Conjurations 19 Greater Summoning 10 Lesser Summoning (Arcane Wis.) 20 Summoning (3rd Edition) 18 Shaping Magics 20 Rune Magics 20 Sorceries of the Mind is 12, less than average, which is seven points a warrior would not be able to put elsewhere. That is the difference between a 15 (average) and 22 (exceptional). -- Anthony T. Stanford ([l--gi--n] at [netins.net]) ----------------------------------------------------------------- CEREBUS ARCHIVE MOVES (Copied from rec.games.frp.misc) ================================================================= The Cerebus site is a gopher/ftp/www accessible repository of gaming materials, including some DragonQuest materials. According to this notice, its URL address has moved. Those of you who have used this site (or who are looking for other DQ materials out on the 'Net) will want to make a note of this. (Note: This is *not* the DQN Archive, which is still at ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/dr/drache.) -- ED. Cerebus the Gopher (aka Negative Space) is in the process of moving. The official grand opening is Friday, the 13th of October. The new site name is "http://nspace.cts.com/". The old "cerebus.acusd.edu" address will remain in place for about a week, after which all requests will be automatically routed to nspace. ---------------------_D_Q_ _A_R_C_H_I_V_E_----------------------- ================================================================= [Archive ftp site is at: ftp.netcom.com in the pub/dr/drache directory. [ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/dr/drache] Archivist and ftp Guru: Drake Stanton ([d--ac--e] at [netcom.com])] The College of Spider Magics -- Review by Philip Proefrock ARCHIVE NAME: ### ### This is one of several new colleges of Magic sent to us by Andy South. He doesn't identify which branch it belongs to, but it's pretty obvious (to me, at least) that this belongs with the Entities. Andy's description indicates that "this one was inspired by two books by Mike Jeffries, 'Hall of Whispers' and 'Glitterspike Hall', both highly recommended. The College is meant to be pretty icky, and makes for some fun NPCs in the right situations." It also seems highly approriate for the Halloween issue. The Giant Spider in this month's Beastiary is also taken from the write up of this college. This college is very much outside the pattern of the original colleges of magic, as well as most other colleges which have been added to the Archive to date. It may not exactly fit into the conventional pattern of DQ-as-we-know-it (and if SPI was still around, I'm sure the purists would howl with outrage, "You can't have a college of magic that's just about spiders!") But I was really intrigued by what I saw here, and the ideas it gave me. The implication set up by this college is that there can be possibly even hundreds of Colleges of Magic with their own sub-specialties and focuses for doing magic. (For another example of this kind, has anyone else ever read 'Mooncrow' by Jack Massa?) It may not be for everyone's campaign (and I expect that it will show up more for NPCs than for player characters), but it's worth a look. From the introduction: THE COLLEGE OF SPIDER DWEOMER The magic of this College is primarily concerned with controlling events by using spiders as tools and allies. Most humanoid creatures find spiders to be repugnant and shun them whenever possible, so adherents of this form of magic tend to be loners and outcasts from their own species. Many such adepts acquire traits from the creatures that serve them, becoming devious, subtle, patient, and utterly ruthless. Spider mages are powerful in their own lair, but they also have spells that allow them to see what transpires in the world without. Their form of magic lends itself to things such as assassination, manipulation, blackmail, extortion, and spying. A Spider Mage can potentially wield tremendous control over events in nearby towns and cities by using magic to subtly manipulate political forces. ----------------------------ERRATA------------------------------- ================================================================= An article in the last issue ("Non-Combat Blow") was credited to "Legion" (which was the only information we had). The author's real name is Anthony T. Stanford. ------------------------ADVERTISEMENTS--------------------------- ================================================================= NOTICE: We have received about 20 replies to the survey which was attached to the last Newsletter. (That's really a pretty good response rate, as such things go.) For those of you who haven't replied, yet, please send your reply before the end of November (so that the information can be compiled and reported in that issue). -- ED. ================================================================= Visit the DragonQuest HomePage on the World Wide Web! This site has lots of stuff for DragonQuest, including: *Back issues of the DragonQuest Newsletter *New Colleges of Magic *New Skills *A collection of DragonQuest Art The DragonQuest HomePage--- http://www.st.nepean.uws.edu.au/~dallbutt/dq ########################################################### ### End of DragonQuest Newsletter v2/n8 -- October 1995 ###########################################################