From: [f--h--e] at [amd.com] Reply-To: [f--h--e] at [amd.com] Errors-To: [flashlife control] at [amd.com] Subject: Flashlife V2 #7 To: [f--h--e] at [amd.com] From: Carl Rigney (moderator) <[flashlife control] at [amd.com]> Flashlife Tue, 7 May, 1991 Volume 2 : Issue 7 Today's topics: APDS, combat and you. (Milord) Re: APDS Ammo (Andrew David Weiland) Re: APDS ammo (Laurence R. Brothers) Re: Tech priority 3 and 4 (Andrew David Weiland) making metahumans: the easy way (ANANDA) Loughborough House-Rules (A Lump Of Putty) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 4 May 91 12:01:20 EDT From: [m--lo--d] at [jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu] (Milord) Subject: APDS, combat and you. In the most recent flashlife, Roger Leroux asked about the effects of APDS, noting that they might not be powerful enough. Well, this brings to mind a conversation our group was having last night. We play modified combat rules, the most notable of which is that all firefights stage up at two, down at the listed value. (Which makes sense). Combat has the nice point that it is fairly simple. Pick a target number, roll and figure damage. Resist damage. No messy charts, you just have to know the range (basic target number) modifiers and damage code. Combat has the down side that it takes forever. A combat that lasts thirty seconds game time (and we've had a few) can take hours. And we play with a more deadly staging than the rules suggest. What are we doing wrong? We eventually decided that the armor was just too good. A lined coat will save you from a pistol. No problem unless they stage it to a serious, and even then, cool (most runners probably have enough dice between body and dodge that getting two fours is easy, two sixes isn't that much a long shot...) Now comes the question...how do you fix it? I am somewhat enthralled by Carl's `DMZ' style combat (making the condition monitors two boxes longer, number them 1-12 with one being the final box, and 12 being two boxes below light) and whenever you take damage, roll 2D6 and start the damage from that box (or higher, if that box is full). Now a light might be a scratch or a serious. But I can see where runners might not like it. Rolling Armor as dice? Making the armor laws tougher? What can you do? We decided that a stricter enforcement of the armor laws, combined with an across the board drop of all armor by a point, might work, but it would have to be tinkered with, probably. So, after this diatribe, what are your opinions in armor? The guns seem to be doing their jobs, but the armor is an overachiever.... [I use weapons stage up by 2, down by their usual rating, and armor gives one automatic success plus its rating in dice. Seems to work pretty well. Wearing Body armor is a crime, firearms are crimes, military weapons or armor are a federal crime. --CDR] Brian Bankler Coming Next Semester -- Hopkins Third Live Action Shadowrun Game!! Watch this space for details. [Blatant Plug]. -------------------------- Date: Sat, 4 May 91 13:03:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew David Weiland <[aw 1 s] at [andrew.cmu.edu]> Subject: Re: APDS Ammo References: <[9105040155 AA 18799] at [AMD.COM]> My method for handling AP weapons depends upon the rule automatic success = automatic 6 (recently discussed in rec.games.frp). By this rule, each point of armor is counted as extra body dice that automatically comes up 6 (plus another die). This doesn't make armor much less effective, but makes people in heavy armor a little less confident. AP ammo is marvelously effective; it doubles a bullet's force against armor only. Maybe that's why it's so restricted by law. DS ammo increases a bullet's force by 1 against all sorts of attacks. Whether or not you double the +1 bonus versus armor for APDS ammo (giving force 2n+2 versus armor instead of 2n+1 for a force n gun) is a matter of taste. Incidentially, another way to weaken armor is to count against the resistance test extra success on the attack roll which do not increase staging. For example, a staging 2 weapon. If the character gets 2 successes, that's 1 success more that armor and/or body dice must work off. Three successes are necessary to reduce the staging by 1 level; 5 successes to reduce it 2 levels. You might want to say that extra successes only apply against armor dice, not against body dice; i considered that but found it was too much work, so i didn't bother. -- Andrew D. M. U. Weiland [aw 1 s] at [andrew.cmu.edu] -------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 May 91 10:52:23 -0400 From: [q--as--r] at [puddle.bellcore.com] (Laurence R. Brothers) Subject: Re: APDS ammo Let's face it, APDS ammo is just a random extension to the ammo table. I assume by "armor piercing discarding sabot" we mean something like depleted uranium or osmium or some such in a core, maybe with a shaped charge. I don't know if that can be fit into a typical bullet and still be effective. If so, then sure, it might well ignore kevlar or bodyarmor. On the other hand, it might do less damage since I assume it would tend to exit cleanly from the body? If it makes you feel better about it, call them something else or raise the effect and make sure it's as hard to get and expensive as it should be, considering the materials and workmanship that go into each bullet. I find the power level quite satisfactory, considering I have a party who has found their AK-98's with APDS quite effective against true-form soldier ants [Spoiler omitted --CDR], even with the "immunity to bullets" power doubling their ballistic armor protection. a 7 shot burst of 6S3 hits works pretty well against even high armor classes. On the other hand, they haven't gotten to the force-5 soldiers with, what, 10 ballistic armor, yet.... -- Laurence Brothers [q--as--r] at [bellcore.com] -------------------------- Date: Sat, 4 May 91 13:40:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew David Weiland <[aw 1 s] at [andrew.cmu.edu]> Subject: Re: Tech priority 3 and 4 References: <[9105040155 AA 18799] at [AMD.COM]> While priority 4 of anything is powerful, tech priority 4 is obscene. With skills, the limitation of 6 still applies; your character can be good at a lot of things, but he won't be better at his speciality than a priority 2 skills character. For attributes, there's only so much high ability scores will do for a character. Priority 4 in race (metahumanity) is severely disadvantaged. Priority 4 in magic (full magician) is powerful, but has its own limitations. Tech priority 4 is also limited, because there's only so much stuff a character can buy and take with him on a run (or even carry around with him for that matter). A street samurai with priority 3 would be okay, but not too powerful. A decker or rigger with priority 3 isn't. I'm merely pointing out that these characters should take priority 4, because of their background. Maybe for a samurai the skills make the difference, but the hardware makes the samurai, not the skills. As for contacts; i don't think 40 is necessary to get what you want. Contacts are assumed to familiar acquaintances, with whom you are on good (if not wondeful) terms. Ten contacts is enough for any fixer of detective; if you need something they can't provide, then one of them can point you to a friend. 1. Yes, Essence is a check against cyberware. So tech priority 4 is wasted on a samurai unless, as i stated, you give them alpha and beta cyberware (i don't). 2. For one of "A few things" include a helicopter with a heavy machine gun and an assualt cannon, plus an extra 10 contacts (not bad for a rigger). He used a total of 3 contacts (one was a PC) in the adventure, and never got a chance to show off his helicopter (this was in part my design; he'd be a lot happier assaulting a wilderness stronghold in his helicopter, but i didn't want to run that). As stated before, a character starts out with two free contacts. Contacts are very hard to buy, as they can be very useful in the right circumstances (and it's always useful to have a contact to talk to, even if he can't offer any help for this adventure). This depends on the campaign; a GM can make your contacts useless any time he wants. On the other hand, a GM can use contacts as sources for adventures and as a calvary to rescue the party from a hose scenario (usually losing some of the party's precious equipment in the process, but hey that's life). -- Andrew D. M. U. Weiland [aw 1 s] at [andrew.cmu.edu] -------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 May 1991 22:52 CDT From: ANANDA%[BSU DECNET] at [MSUS1.BITNET] Subject: making metahumans: the easy way I am using an easy system for creating metahuman characters. The Race priority levels are changed as follows: Points Race (old sytem) Race (new system) 0 Human Human 1 Human Ork 2 Human Elf 3 Human Troll 4 Metahuman Dwarf The basis for the change is the fact that not all metahumans are created equal. The adjustments to various statistics are not all equal between the different metahuman races. The cumulative stat adjustments are modified further by the other adjustments (e.g., +1 reach for trolls). The Ork and Elf have equivalent adjustment totals, but I place the Ork at the lower point cost. There are two main reasons for this: first, orks tend to be more common than elves; second, orks are not as well-treated as are elves in the predominantly human society. [But why do grumpies rank so high?? --CDR] If you want metahumans - particularly orks and elves - to be less common in your campaign, you might consider the following table: Points Race (old sytem) Race (new system) 0 Human Human 1 Human Human 2 Human Human 3 Human Elf or Ork 4 Metahuman Dwarf or Troll (If you use this, and your players always go for elves over orks and dwarves over trolls, you may need to give some other incentive to play an ork or troll.) My players' favorite npc is an ork mage who goes by the name of Grunt. In actuality, Grunt is a scholarly, erudite sort who is quite the elder British gentleman. His 'real' name is Daniel O'Neill, so some people occaisionally compare him to "Neil, the Ork Barbarian" of simsense fame. Of course, he takes this all in stride, sometimes even doing a "Neil, the Ork Barbarian" imitation, which is really quite amusing when done with his heavy British accent. :-) -- Ananda ananda%[bsu decnet] at [msus1.msus.edu] /ananda%[b--u] at [msus1.msus.edu] \__if the .decnet ananda%[bsu decnet] at [msus1.bitnet] \ananda%[b--u] at [msus1.bitnet] / causes problems -------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 May 91 14:25:25 BST From: A Lump Of Putty <[R J Hay] at [loughborough.ac.uk]> Subject: Loughborough House-Rules Due to the `loose' nature of the SHADOWRUN rules GM's often start introducing house rules or modifying the existing ones . This is definately all for the good of things, but here at Loughborough we encountered the problem that with 7 refs these differences in rules started to seriously affect play (for instance players often wanted to know who the ref was before they chose what equipment to take on a Run, due to its differing effects). So anyway, we eventually got together and thrashed out the rules we were going to adopt uniformly, and as it was the result of many hours of discussion I thought it may be of some value / interest to you folks out there . (Of relevance to present topics on flashlife is R 22 on Contacts) So here they are ; (`R` for Rules, `G` for Guidelines) THE AGREED UNIFORM RULES AND GUIDELINES FOR LOUGHBOROUGH GM'S R 1 Flechette rounds go against just the target's impact armour's rating. R 2 If a shotgun misses treat as if it had hit but with it's power rating reduced by 1-3 . R 3 Ammo consumption; triangular summation, halved if gun is smart. i.e.; Normal Smart 1 Burst 1 1 2 Bursts 3 2 3 Bursts 6 3 4 Bursts 10 5 5 Bursts 15 8 6 Bursts 21 11 7 Bursts 28 14 Note: A reactivly triggered gun only ever uses 2 bullets for it's 2 shots. R 4 You cannot fit both a silencer and a gas vent to the same gun, unless one is integral. R 5 Grenade damage; Standard - 5D2 I.P.E. - 6D2 against impact armour. R 6 Timed fused grenade settings; Can be set to 1-7 sec. in one action. Can be set to 8-60 sec. in three actions. Treat one second as being 10 Action Points. (A combat turn taking 30 Action Points). A grenade will detonate 2D6-7 points after the desired time setting. If a player has not specified a grenade's setting, and throws it without setting the fuse it is assumed to be set to 3 Seconds. R 7 Grenade burst radii; For a narrow burst grenade: everything up to, But Not Including, one metre away from an exploding grenade takes normal damage. Everthing from one metre up to, But Not Including, two metres away takes damage with one less power level. Etc. R 8 If a grenade explodes in a person's hand, he or she takes normal damage, but with no armour protection. If this caused a serious or deadly wound the person's hand has been blown off. R 9 Mini-grenades cannot deviate by more than half the distance they were fired. R10 Air-timed mini-grenades deviate normaly (as above) but without any depth deviation. i.e Deviation Direction Distance From Centre Of Blast 1 or 4 zero 2 or 3 2/3 deviation distance to the right 5 or 6 2/3 deviation distance to the left N.B.: GM's should always consider the effects of terrain on the path of the grenade. (It has been left undecided what occurs when the grenade's deviation direction is short of the target). R11 Grenade Cost; Type Cost Explosive 30 Concussion 30 Neuro-Stun 60 Flash 40 Smoke 40 Standard Mini x5/3 (Explosive or Concussion only) Air-Timed Mini x 3 ( " " " " ) I.P.E. x8/3 e.g.: An air-timed I.P.E. mini concussion grenade would cost; 30 x 3 x 8/3 = 240 R12 When grenades are bought impact or timed fuses must be stipulated. If both are chosen the grenade costs double. R13 Bayonets attack as knives with +1 reach. R14 Luck Rolls: Karma cannot be used to affect a luck roll, but may be used to simulate the effects thereof. e.g.; A pair off restraints not working properly may be due to a luck roll, but the only way in which to burn Karma to assist you is to buy off the successes of the person who put them on. R15 A gun only recieves it's Automatic Fire Bonus (+1 power level) when firing on full auto, i.e 7 bursts. R16 Solid slug shotgun ammo does +1 power level damage. R17 Solid slug shotgun ammo can be bought as APDS, scatter shot cannot. R18 For Weapons With Stocks Only: +1 recoil compensation can be gained if one action has been spent bracing a weapon with a stock. An additional +1 is gained if the appropriate shock pad is being worn. All rifles and MG's have stocks. It takes one action to unfold a folding stock. An SMG with it's stock unfolded has -2 to it's concealability. Bracing is lost if the firer moves or the weapon fires more bursts than it can fully compensate for. R19 Stabilisation takes one minute, divided by the number of successes. The target number is 10 base (as on page144) not as on page67. R20 TEMPORARY, due to ongoing discussion: Medkits add their three dice to Biotech rolls (note there must be a medic actually performing the first aid). Mediccing without a kit's drug supply, or something similar, is automatically terrible conditions. R21 The body roll against death's target number is the number of minutes that elapsed before successful stabilisation began. R22 The number of starting Contacts a character may have is equal to his etiquette skill(s). The type of Contact (street, corp, military, etc.) has to be the same as the etiquette, except for one contact which can be chosen from any catergory (although it still has to be `bought' with a point from an etiquette of the players choice) . The effects of a character increasing his etiquette skill(s) with Karma has yet to be decided, as has the effect of etiquette skillsofts. R23 A reactively triggered assault cannon firing two shells has a recoil modifier of +2. G 1 All ways possible, including street cred and the police, should be used to tone down PC armour and weaponry. G 2 The ranges on assault rifles, SMG's, and LMG's seem to be out of sinc. with eachother at ranges over medium, as this usually does not occur there has been no solid ruling made on this. G 3 Watch out for the abuse of auto-successes G 4 Remember it's the number of successes that's important, not the highest number rolled. G 4 Note that a character's wounds may heal of their own accord, given time (see page142). G 5 Note limb/organ loss only occurs due to a single deadly wound. -------------------------- End of Flashlife **************************