From [flashlife request] at [kpc.com] Tue Jun 1 20:37:06 1993 Received: by mailbox.kpc.com (4.1/kpc-930422) id AA09602; Tue, 1 Jun 93 20:37:03 PDT Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 20:37:03 PDT Message-Id: <[9306020337 AA 09602] at [mailbox.kpc.com]> Errors-To: [c d r] at [kpc.com] From: [f--h--e] at [kpc.com] Reply-To: [f--h--e] at [kpc.com] Errors-To: [flashlife request] at [kpc.com] Subject: Flashlife V3 #12 To: [f--h--e] at [kpc.com] Status: R From: Carl Rigney (moderator) <[flashlife request] at [kpc.com]> Flashlife Tue, 1 Jun, 1993 Volume 3 : Issue 12 Today's topics: Fixing Shadowrun Magic (Trip) Re: Flechette ammo (Laurence Brothers) Aikido & SRII MA (William L Schongar) Re: Martial Arts in Shadowrun II (ual1) Re: Martial Arts in Shadowrun II (Andrew David Weiland) FTP archive is on ftp.kpc.com:/pub/list/flashlife. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 May 93 19:07:43 -0700 From: [t--p] at [netcom.com] (Trip) Subject: Fixing Shadowrun Magic Yet Another Fix For ShadowRun Magic The ShadowRun rules contain many many references to magic being a property of nature and living things and not of machines. A logical extension of this is that magic only affects living things and only in 'natural' ways. All those annoying D&D spells that produce fireballs, gouts of acid, and microwave death beams go away. Levitation and telekinesis type effects are no longer possible. Illusions only work on living things. Most sensory spells still work; telepathy/aura reading is prefectly appropriate, and if you can go someplace astrally and look at it, you should be able to send a spell there to look. Infravision (excuse me, *thermographic* vision) spells are out, but that's fine because biological infravision is pretty bogus anyway. Hyperdilating the pupils works for night vision, but don't get flashed. Magical healing works, but should probably turn physical damage into mental damage, because it uses up so much energy. Forcefield spells are right out; 'armor' spells turn into berserker spells that let the user keep going until he dies, but don't prevent death. This makes cybered people a lot more dangerous against mages: sure, a mage can paralyze someone, but if that gun is in a cyber hand controlled by skillwires, the trigger is probably going to get pulled anyway. Similarly, heart-attack spells are notoriously ineffective against artificial hearts. Most illusions will work on people with cybersenses, though. Shamans still get to conjure spirits; most of the cool spirit powers (eg, Guard, Accident, Obscure, Confuse) can work without having to directly affect the physical world. Hermetic mages have a bit more of a problem in that elementals are pretty physical. If you want consistency, you could give hermetic mages something else to conjure, like ghosts or immaterial Cthulhoid horrors. Another option is to let hermetic mages conjure elementals that affect the physical world, but with the usual requirements for expensive materials and time. This lets hermetic mages feel superior because their magic can do what shamanic magic can't, and lets shamans feel superior because hermetic magic is practically technology. If you want to restrict conjuring even more, require a separate conjuring skill for each broad class of entity, which can be concentrated/specialized for subcategories. Instead of Conjure [any spirit] 4 or Conjure [any elemental] 5, it's Conjure Urban Spirits 2/Hearth Spirits 4/Bordellos 6, or Conjure Earth Elementals 3/Concrete 5/Roads 7. Or whatever. None of this has been playtested, so I'd be interested to hear the results if anyone tries it. [ I really like the idea that magic spells only affect living things, anyone care to give it a try and report back? --CDR] -------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 93 08:13:15 EDT From: Laurence Brothers <[q--as--r] at [ctt.bellcore.com]> Subject: Re: Flechette ammo It is evident* to me that flechette ammo would be stopped unusually well by ballistic armor. Flechette ammo is designed for maximum damage to flesh, like a bunch of stabilized shotgun pellets, and hence, ballistic armor should have the 2x bonus. Each flechette is quite light compared to a slug (or a depleted uranium core :-) and would tend to get stopped by any resistant surface, hence the similar bonus for impact armor. -Laurence *"evident" to me as one completely unlettered in military matters; however I think common sense should apply here (though that may be contrary to the spirit of Shadowrun (tm) rules? :-) -------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 10:39:14 -0400 (EDT) From: William L Schongar <[t--c--r] at [wpi.WPI.EDU]> Subject: Aikido & SRII MA Just some generic comments... > Throw: One damage level less but net successes means the target > is on the ground. I think this is an interesting idea, but I think the ability to have only one net success and floor someone is a bit too much. A few generic variations occurred to me, but they'd be more work in computing it: 1) Net successes x (2 or 3, depending on attacker's str) = opponents target number for quickness test to avoid throw (but not damage). Success = still standing, but an increase to target numbers due to being halfway whipped around. # of successes necessary = attacker's skill. This would mean that it's nigh impossible to dodge out of a really good throw. 2) Net successes >= (.5 x opponents best unarmed combat skill), then throw works. Damage applies with any successes. I had though of a few others, but they've fled. I'm just trying to take into account the fact that someone who is very agile or well-trained can compensate for being thrown or at least work against it. Granted, realism isn't always the first goal.. > Hold: One damage level less (or at the attacker's option, two) but > the target must roll unarmed combat vs. twice the number of net successes > to break free. (Or perhaps it should be an unarmed combat vs. unarmed > combat resisted test with the holder getting -1 per original success and the > attacker getting +1.) I think this is good, but think the option for using a straight Str roll at no penalty (for not being a skill) would be appropriate. You may have a troll who just shoots a lot, but try holding a str 7 troll in a body lock when you're str 4.. maybe a (str - 1 or 2) roll, to take into account that it isn't a skill.. something like that. > Killing Strike: One damage level less and/or half power, but does physical > instead of stun damage. (Not appropriate for Aikido, mind you.) Isn't this a Phys adept power? Not that I'm objecting to it, but someone could go out and buy plastic bone lacing, or more, and get the same effect, without learning the discipline.. > The other part to simulating Aikido is that you can concentrate in it > for the purposes of defense, so for example you'd have > Unarmed Combat 3, Aikido 5, and roll 5 dice on defense but only 3 dice > when attacking. (More properly, you'd never attack.) Or even go so far as to add 1 die to combat pool for defensive purposes in addition to the 3/5 idea... Interesting idea, though... -Tracker -------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 18:39:17 -0400 From: [ual 1] at [crux2.cit.cornell.edu] Subject: Re: Martial Arts in Shadowrun II > Throw: One damage level less but net successes means the target > is on the ground. Depending on the Aikidoki's skill level, you can also factor in a stun--say, if you get X number of succeses more than the defenders unarmed combat, then he did not know how to role out of the throw, which becomes more likely the greater the disparity between the attacker and the defender--hell, why not even make it real damage at ((8 - lvl of UAC)/4). while we're at it. (have you ever been tossed by a pissed black belt)? > Hold: One damage level less (or at the attacker's option, two) but > the target must roll unarmed combat vs. twice the number of net successes > to break free. (Or perhaps it should be an unarmed combat vs. unarmed > combat resisted test with the holder getting -1 per original success and the > attacker getting +1.) UAC(defender) vs UAC(attacker)+.5*number of attackers succeses Reasons: 1. Combat oriented holds do not (ideally) depend much on the strenth of the attacker/defender, just on the skill levels of those involved. 2. There is no hold that cannot be reversed (during it's application) by someone who knows what is going on. This, however, is harder to do A further thought: there are many different kinds of holds that work on various parts of the body. You can call a hold for a specific part of the body, but you suffer a penalty for doing so, depending on what part you want to lock up. It is relatively easy to go for arm or leg locks harder to go for a head lock... In general assign numbers to body zones (1-10 or something) and a random role hould determine what you lock up, reflecting the chaotic nature of combat. While head locks can be most powerful (1 pt stun cumulative per round and an option to break the guys neck [UAC vs Body+UAC]) it uses both of your hands up and leaves you pretty much a sitting duck for your typical wired sam. There are myriad arm, wrost finger and other joint locks that give you more ability to move. Of course if you opt to use both hands you can increase th power lvl of the attack, or damage, or soething like thatcuz this way you bring more leverage to bear. > Killing Strike: One damage level less and/or half power, but does physical > instead of stun damage. (Not appropriate for Aikido, mind you.) Aikido has strikes. They are called atemi. > The other part to simulating Aikido is that you can concentrate in it > for the purposes of defense, so for example you'd have > Unarmed Combat 3, Aikido 5, and roll 5 dice on defense but only 3 dice > when attacking. (More properly, you'd never attack.) > Comments? How about not allowing for attack with Aikido at all (or only at 1/2 skill lvl) but allowing each unarmed defense to count as a possible attack. Emphasis here would be on throws and atemi. Also consider an option of throwing people into each other as they attack you. Very effective in slowing people down. Trust me. A further thought on martial arts is that damage should be related to skil, not strength, as soon as skill is higher. This reflects the natural progression people make from strength based techniques to skill based ones as they become more proficient. [ual 1] at [cornell.edu] "The coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave man but once... either way, he's dead." -------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 18:52:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew David Weiland <[aw 1 s] at [andrew.cmu.edu]> Subject: Re: Martial Arts in Shadowrun II References: <[9304270321 AA 02641] at [mailbox.kpc.com]> >Remember our discussions a couple of years ago on Martial Arts >in Shadowrun? Nope, I don't either. But I have been thinking >some more about it because I have a new character with Aikido. I'm running a martial artist, so I've been thinking about some new rules as well. The best way to run it might be to make every martial arts style a concentration of the Unarmed Combat skill. Each style could include a number of separate manuevers as well, which are all specializations. The basic (Str)M Stun attack is a manuever called a strike. It may not be possible to specialize in the strike, since it's so general. You may not want to have all styles include a strike manuever since some styles, like Aikido, don't concentrate on offense. So what can you do? Use the root (Unarmed Combat) skill, or see below. >Throw: One damage level less but net successes means the target .... >Hold: One damage level less (or at the attacker's option, two) but .... >Killing Strike: One damage level less and/or half power, but does physical All of which would be specializations within a particular style. >The other part to simulating Aikido is that you can concentrate in it >for the purposes of defense, so for example you'd have >Unarmed Combat 3, Aikido 5, and roll 5 dice on defense but only 3 dice >when attacking. (More properly, you'd never attack.) >Comments? I was thinking that for some manuevers, you'd get a chance to use the enemy's strength against them. These types of manuevers could never be used as attacks, but only in the defense roll. Damage level is based on your enemy's Strength level instead of your own (which would allow martial artists to be very effective against your typical Str 6 samurai). The next step is to take a bunch of styles, and break them up into manuevers. Karate, for instance, might have specializations of Strike and Killing Strike. How about some other styles? -- [aw 1 s] at [andrew.cmu.edu] | Andy Weiland We should not let ourselves be burnt for our opinions; we are not that sure of them. But perhaps for this: that we may have and change our opinions. -------------------------- End of Flashlife **************************