From: [h--e] at [btree.brooktree.com] (Bob Hale) Newsgroups: alt.society.civil-liberty,misc.legal,talk.politics.guns Subject: Re: Ban Gun Ownership By Blacks!!! Date: 23 May 1994 20:34:40 -0700 ROMI BOSE <[r--o--e] at [kentlaw.edu]> wrote: >[Karl Kleinpaste] at [cs.cmu.edu] writes: >>The modification or repeal of the 2nd Amendment would not change the >>nature or existence of the right to bear arms. It might make doing so >>illegal, hence the cost to exercise one's right would rise, but the >>right itself would persist. The right cannot be repealed. The right >>is bound up inextricably in the right to self-defense; no more >>fundamental right exists. These are wise and well thought out words. >I think people need to read the 2d amendment more closely. When it was >written, it was shortly after independence. The militia at the time still >mainly consisted of private individuals defending, along with their >neighbors, against attacks. If you read it, you will see references along >the lines of maintaining a well armed militia. Police and the >armed forces have taken care of the need of a well armed militia, and >private people are not required to carry weapons. I just don't think gun >control is a 2d amendment issue. Our modern armies and police have made the >protection of the 2d amendment to private individuals moot. Human nature hasn't changed any significant amount in the last 200 years or so. The 2nd is at least as valid now as it was when it was penned, and is probably even more important to the people of the U.S. at the present time than it was then. The Second Amendment must be one of the most misunderstood writings ever put forth in this country, even though there has been an enormous amount of scholarship applied to it and its ramifications. Bear with me and we'll touch on a few relevant points. The militia clause of the 2nd was added to strengthen it. If you read the various debates held by state legislatures and the publications of the Founding Fathers (The Federalist Papers being a good start) you will find that various wordings were tried and discarded until they produced what we have today - a sentence consisting of a leadin clause which expresses _one_ of the reasons why the RKBA is to be preserved, and the guarantee itself, that the RKBA shall not be infringed. The first clause in no way limits or diminishes the following words; instead, it serves to strengthen them. A frequently offered argument says that the 2nd refers to a collective right of the people, not to individual rights. This interpretation has been discredited by numerous sources, not the least of which is the U.S. Supreme Court. In a 1990 case the court noted that "the people" referred to in the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 9th, and 10th amendments all referred to the same set of individuals. Sanford Levinson, in his "The Embarrassing Second Amendment", admits that he started out to prove, once and for all, that the 2nd referred to a collective right. He had the integrity to admit that he was wrong, and he published his work in the Yale Law Journal. There are numerous other works on this subject of which the overwhelming majority come to the same conclusion, that the RKBA applies to individuals. See the last paragraph below. There is no guarantee that the government, at any level, will come to anyone's defense against violence. Numerous courts, including state supreme courts and the U.S. Supreme Court have all held that no law enforcement agency has any legal duty to protect any individual. Since the government is not obligated to protect any individuals, who will protect them? The words "gun control" usually refer to some legislation which would attempt to make it unlawful to possess or to use any of a certain (usually large) class of firearms. But criminals don't pay attention to the law in the first place. Such legislation does nothing but disarm the ordinary citizen while leaving the criminals alone. In fact, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that criminals cannot be forced to incriminate themselves by revealing that they illegally possess firearms. In other words, criminals are immune from firearms registration requirements. Historically, registration has been a prelude to confiscation. Just ask the residents of New York City about that. The Second Amendment does not _grant_ the RKBA. Instead, it guarantees the pre-existing right to keep and bear arms. United States law is based upon English common law. Sir William Blackstone listed amongst the absolute rights of individuals "the right of petitioning the king and parliament for redress of grievances; and lastly, to the right of having and using arms for self preservation and defense." In his "Commentaries on the Laws of England" he goes on to elaborate why the right to self defense supersedes the man-made laws of society. Romi Bose said that private people are not required to carry weapons. This is true. Much time and debate was spent on whether or not such a requirement should exist. In the end, the Founding Fathers decided that it was best not to have such a requirement because there would have been a need for exceptions to it, and the exceptions were subject to enormous abuse. However, the real issue is whether the people have the _option_ to keep and bear arms. There are a few places in the U.S. where citizens are required to maintain arms. Kennesaw, Georgia, is one such place. It has a remarkably low crime rate. Whether their crime rate is a result of their law is debatable, but one thing is sure, their law didn't create a rash of citizen shootings. If anything, it did the opposite. Other cities have done the opposite. Morton Grove, Illinois, is one such example. Their violent crime rate has risen dramatically since their ordinary citizens were disarmed by a city ordinance. The criminals in Morton Grove were emboldened by the ordinance because the victims of the criminals were made legally defenseless. Many people are unaware of just what the militia is. It is actually codified in U.S. law - there is the organized militia which consists of groups such as the National Guard, and the unorganized militia which consists of all males between the ages of 17 and 45 with a few exceptions. However, since this law was enacted, discrimination on the basis of sex and age has been outlawed so it is likely that the code applies to all citizens and to all those who intend to become citizens. In other words, almost every one of us is a member of the militia. The Founding Fathers were very much opposed to the concept of a standing army. The reasoning was simple - a standing army could be taken over by a tyrant or by a tryannical government while the militia (the people at large) could not be forced to turn against their own. Thomas Jefferson said it well when he remarked "No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." He hit the nail right on the head - the history of this country is rife with examples of race control implemented by gun control. Take New York's Sullivan Law for one example. It protected the dock criminals at the expense of the largely immigrant population in the area. Or the laws passed in the South after the Civil War which forbade the ownership of any handgun expect the Army or Navy models. Sounds pretty innocuous, doesn't it? But the Army and Navy models were high priced, roughly $500 in today's currency. No Negro could afford either of those models so they were effectively disarmed by that law. A similar effort is being proposed these days - a ban on "Saturday Night Specials." A Saturday Night Special is a cheap handgun, typically of poor quality and short life expectancy. It is cheap and therefore it is affordable to those who are of minority race and have not had the benefit of education and equal treatment. Bans on such firearms would work against the interests of minority races who are, for the most part, poor. Much literature is available on the subject of the RKBA. I have a bibliography available by e-mail request. If you are interested in the subject then please request it. Bob Hale [h--e] at [brooktree.com]