Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns From: [c--am--r] at [optilink.dsccc.com] (Clayton Cramer) Subject: Re: Second Amendment - a collective right Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 00:54:09 GMT Willow thw <[willowt h w] at [aol.com]> wrote: >[c--am--r] at [optilink.dsccc.com] (Clayton Cramer) writes: >>Isn't it odd that almost every state supreme court and U.S. Supreme >>Court ruling doesn't share this understanding? The state supreme >>courts have, in almost every case, recognized this as an INDIVIDUAL >>right. > >This is not true. I challenge you to cite me a majority of state supreme >court decisions that have held that the Second Amendment is individual. You asked for it. The following is a list of state supreme court decisions that have, when an individual appealed to the Second Amendment's protections, the court, rather than deny an individual right was protected, did one of the following: 1. Struck down a gun control law; 2. Claimed that the Second Amendment was only was a limitation on the federal government with respect to individual rights, but did not restrict state laws; 3. Claimed the Second Amendment only restricted the federal government, but struck down a law based on a state RKBA provision; 4. Found some other basis for upholding a law, without denying the claim that the Second Amendment protected an individual right; 5. Found that the Second Amendment protected an individual right, but found some method to harmonize a gun control law based on the idea that this was "reasonable regulation," or that the weapons regulated were not protected. In short, they refused to make this silly claim that the Second Amendment doesn't protect an individual right. NOTE BENE: I do NOT claim that every decision on the list below found an absolute right to keep and bear arms, or an unlimited right. In some of the decisions, the court has clearly found a way to avoid directly striking down a law by one of the items listed 2-5 above. I have also excluded a number of appellate court decisions -- but about as many from all three lists below. I also haven't included any of the federal decisions, most of which acknowledge explicitly or implicitly that the Second Amendment protects an individual right. Aymette v. State, 2 Hump. (21 Tenn.) 154 (1840) State v. Newsom, 5 Iredell 181, 27 N.C. 250 (1844) Nunn v. State, 1 Ga. 243 (1846) State v. Chandler, 5 La. An. 489 (1850) Smith v. State, 11 La. An. 633 (1856) State v. Jumel, 13 La. An. 399 (1858) Cockrum v. State, 24 Tex. 394 (1859) Andrews v. State, 3 Heisk. (50 Tenn.) 165 (1871) Fife v. State, 31 Ark. 455, 25 Am. Rep. 556 (1876) English v. State, 35 Tex. 473 (1872) State v. Duke, 42 Tex. 455 (1875) State v. Hill, 53 Ga. 472 (1874) State v. Wilforth, 74 Mo. 528 (1881) State v. Workman, 35 W.Va. 367 (1891) In Re Brickey, 8 Ida. 597, 70 Pac. 609, 101 Am. St. Rep. 215 (1902) Strickland v. State, 137 Ga. 1, 72 S.E. 260 (1911) People v. Persce, 204 N.Y. 397 (1912) State v. Keet, 269 Mo. 206, 190 S.W. 573 (1916) State v. Kerner, 181 N.C. 574, 107 S.E. 222 (1921) State v. Nieto, 101 Ohio St. 409, 130 N.E. 663 (1920) State v. Woodward, 58 Ida. 385, 74 P.2d 92 (1937) State v. Hart, 66 Ida. 217, 157 P.2d 72 (1945) Watson V. Stone, 4 So.2d 700 (Fla. 1941) People v. Liss, 406 Ill. 419, 94 N.E.2d 320 (1950) State v. Nickerson, 126 Mont. 157 (1952) In re Rameriz, 193 Cal. 633, 226 P. 914 (1924) Application of Grauling, 17 Misc.2d 215, 183 N.Y.S.2d 654 (1959) Burton v. Sills, 99 N.J.Super. 459 (1968) Grimm v. City of New York, 56 Misc.2d 525, 289 N.Y.S.2d 358 (1968) Guida v. Dier, 84 Misc.2d 110, 375 N.Y.S.2d 826 (1975) Rinzler v. Carson, 262 So.2d 661 (Fla. 1972) Mosher v. City of Dayton, 48 Ohio St.2d 243, 358 N.E.2d 540 (1976) Kellogg v. City of Gary, 462 N.E.2d 685 (Ind. 1990) State v. Kessler, 289 Or. 359 (1980) City Of Princeton v. Buckner, 377 S.E.2d 139, 142, 143 (W.Va. 1988) The following decisions strongly implied that an individual right was protected by the Second Amendment: State v. Angelo, 3 N.J.Misc. 1014, 130 A. 458 (1925) State v. Sanne, 116 N.H. 583, 364 A.2d 630 (1976) Rabbitt v. Leonard, 36 Conn. Sup. 108 (1979) The following state supreme court decisons have denied the Second Amendment protects an individual right: State v. Buzzard, 4 Ark. 18 (1842) Harris v. State, 432 P.2d 929 (Nev. 1967) State v. Vlacil, 645 P.2d 677 (Utah 1982) (but see Justice Oaks' concurring opinion) Commonwealth v. Davis, 343 N.E.2d 847 (Mass. 1976) Application of Atkinson, 291 N.W.2d 396 (Minn. 1980) -- Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! "What do you mean I can't take a leave of absence to overthrow the government? What sort of cheap-skate company is this?"